Repent without Belief

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by psalms109:31, Jun 18, 2011.

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  1. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
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    Would someone repent of what their sins did to Jesus without believing in Him?

    The other thread is closed, but I would love some more thought on it?
     
    #1 psalms109:31, Jun 18, 2011
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  2. DHK

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    It happens all the time. It is called reformation, not regeneration. Salvation is by faith, not of works.
     
  3. psalms109:31

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    When you know what your sins has done that reaches right down to the inner most being, how can you not break down in tears and repent?
     
  4. preacher4truth

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    The question you raise is not thought through very well, and that is not a slam, just saying. Notice my last paragraph for what I mean. I do gather what you are trying to convey, I think.

    If that repentance is not biblical, then yes, sure someone could "repent." And that is what you would be describing in your question, an unbiblical repentance, turning over a new leaf &c.

    Biblical repentance on the other hand is God working in the individual His Grace, as His gift and goodness to lead them through this to salvation. It's not a "work" as this repentance unto salvation is granted to believers by God Himself.

    Also, I'm not certain how anyone could reform/repent (not biblical repentance) for what their sins did to "Jesus" if they don't even believe in Him in the first place. I don't think they could even believe their sins did anything to Him in this case. Sounds impossible to me, but I'm sure some cult could develop something out of it, and use it as their system. We've all seen worse.

    To rephrase the OP, if I may: Can a person repent of their sin, and not believe in Jesus? Certainly. This happens all the time. It is an extension of false biblical repentance. It is reformation, and this reformation is what persons who misunderstand what true biblical repentance is, and describe it as, making it a work. It's not a work, it's a gift and a grace of God to His elect. When God shows us repentance is necessary with His Gospel, it's not reforming, it's His working in believers. Every good gift comes from God. We have nothing but what we have received.
     
    #4 preacher4truth, Jun 18, 2011
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  5. psalms109:31

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    conclusion

    I believe I was included in Christ when I heard the gospel of my salvation having believed. I was a dog begging at the masters table.There is those who were chosen before the foundation of the world, but unfortunately some have been broken off for unbelief. They were not able to enter the salvation God prepared for them. Election have not saved some, but trusting in Jesus has saved. God has promissed that if you trust in the Lord, He will direct our path. Grace is trusting in the finished work of Christ. God does not concider trust a work, men have turned that into a work to promote their belief system.
     
    #5 psalms109:31, Jun 18, 2011
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  6. Iconoclast

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    :thumbsup::thumbs: good post
     
  7. preacher4truth

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    Thanks brother. I've only, in recent years, come to understand the DoG and find them in the Bible. The Spirit showing me these things. No one taught it to me. Actually, I heard these things, and initially, rejected it and to be honest became a little angry about it (the one who brought it up.) God began enlightening me on these truths, and working on me about them in a big way. Our God is HUGE. It is unreal brother how He works. After Moses saw Gods dealings with man in his Sovereign justice, and grace, he wanted to know more of His ways. I feel the same way.

    It's amazing and thank you.
     
  8. DHK

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    You can repent. I confessed my sins to a priest as a Catholic. But that didn't mean I was saved. Repentance doesn't save; faith in Christ does. For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.
    Without faith you cannot be saved.
     
  9. psalms109:31

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    Without the faith given to me by God through His word not man's I would have no reason to repent. I trust in God not for the fable of men, so I can declare His work.
     
    #9 psalms109:31, Jun 18, 2011
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  10. Iconoclast

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    There is nothing more important in life. The truth of God affects the whole man. I am still learning both by study and experience.
    I pray daily as I travel, for gospel opportunites.....where the Spirit would have already been at work in someones life....and they would be open to spiritual discussion. Many have already been exposed to bad teaching about God, and salvation. {just look at some of the scripture denying posts that get offered in here!
    Some who differ at least make a solid attempt to give a scriptural answer..I am more hopeful for them.
    Your own testimony is at first..rejecting, and opposing.....but...God used even that for your good in that you were compelled to search it out.
    I struggle to be patient with those who oppose....but I used to curse at all christians, or anyone religious. I am the last person who would have ever believed......BUT God who is rich in mercy.......sought me out in my sins, and drew me savingly to Himself.
    I am willing to speak with anyone at anytime now...about their soul
     
    #10 Iconoclast, Jun 18, 2011
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  11. DHK

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    1. Your Calvinistic approach to salvation is not what the OP is addressing.
    2. Here is the OP:
    It is a very simple question. Since salvation is by faith and faith alone, then the answer is that all the repentance in the world is useless without faith. It is simply "works"--reformation. Salvation is by faith, not of works.

    Now to address your post:
    God does not give the unregenerate faith. That is an unbiblical teaching. I challenge you to back that teaching up with Scripture. You may back it up with Calvin and his cohorts, but you can't do it with Scripture.
     
  12. preacher4truth

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    That's a great testimony to God's glory brother. I am glad you will be in all eternity because of Him, praising Him.

    When I heard about election, predestination, Sovereignty, things they never would touch in college, I struggled with trying to understand it. It's also my own fault I did not pursue these things. Whenever I questioned someone (an IFB) they gave some quick matter of fact quip on it. The dumbed down theology upset me. And that is exactly what it is. Rampant ignorance within the IFB to be honest, ticked me off. How could God be in this tiny theological over-simplified theology and not be so much bigger? What's with all this cliche theology? Why does everyone say the same simple minded things? Isn't God much bigger? Why doesn't anyone have more answers, and why when questioned do they get so angry and blow you off about it? All of this troubled me, and I began to search for all of God, not the God of the IFB movement.

    Looking back now, God used all these things to work within me. I prayed I would know more about God, I wanted to KNOW Him. He answered. He always does answer.

    Doing so (studying these things out) I realized this is exactly how God had worked in my life. The God I find in Scripture in all His glory and Sovereignty, justice, mercy and grace. I embrace it all now. Gods ways are amazing, and we are incapable of ascribing to Him what is due in our words, we fall well short to say the least.

    Even though we never studied these things out in College and other studies (because, you know, we IFB pastors knew everything, and everyone else was wrong) I look back on my life and see God working in it exactly how He did in Scripture. Sovereignly, in control of everything, bringing His will to pass in all circumstances, using these to accomplish what He desires. Even the bad things. To Him be glory for ever and ever.

    And I have yet to look at Calvins teachings. Lord willing, I will. Many books to read at this time ahead of him.

    God bless you brother. I am glad He saved you.
     
    #12 preacher4truth, Jun 18, 2011
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  13. psalms109:31

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    I am a calvanist up to the point of the message of faith. God doesn't place one road and we can go only that way. He place before us life and death and His desire is that we chose life and live. Repentance comes after faith, were do we disagree?
     
    #13 psalms109:31, Jun 18, 2011
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  14. DHK

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    Not in that statement.
     
  15. Gershom

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    Love how Dr. Bob likes to get in the last word and then close the thread. Here is is comment:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1694775&postcount=98

    Salvation is by faith (belief) alone. Elementary stuff. "What must I do to be saved?" "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." I guess that's a "false Gospel." :rolleyes:
     
  16. preacher4truth

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    Why is God (your God) so elementary? It's only "faith" all by itself?

    Faith saved you?

    I agree with Bob.

    Your faith only gospel is dismissed in James, and doesn't consider the whole counsel of God.

    That's why it's elementary to you? But God isn't.
     
  17. DHK

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    Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. (James 2:24)

    So you agree with the RCC, Church of Christ, and Oneness Pentecostal (just to name a few) that salvation is by faith plus works?
     
  18. preacher4truth

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    More personal attacks. Losing again?

    I'm saved by grace. You? By faith.

    Again you see things that are not there. Lay off the peyote buttons?

    You're very closely aligned with RCC, Watchtower, CoC, and Oneness.

    Me? I'm aligned with God and His Word.
     
  19. quantumfaith

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    You have absolutely zero, 0, nada, zich "right" to be leveling the charge of personal attacks.
     
  20. DHK

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    Here is what you said:

    "Your faith only gospel is dismissed in James, and doesn't consider the whole counsel of God."

    That is your quote. You said it; not I. So I quoted the verse for you. BTW, it is a verse frequently used by cults especially the ones I mentioned above. James 2:24--"A man is justified by works and not by faith only."

    So just what were you referring to when you said: "Your faith only gospel is dismissed in James?" Please explain. The only rational conclusion I can come to here is that you believe that salvation includes works plus faith, for that is what James says, isn't it?
    You said it. I am quoting you. You said that James dismisses "faith only gospel." Are you ready to reconsider that statement, or do you really believe that salvation is by works as well as by faith?
    I would reconsider your statement if I were you.

    Salvation is by faith, and by faith alone.

    Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (Romans 5:1)
     
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