Repentance ??

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by menageriekeeper, Jul 30, 2010.

  1. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
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    What does it look like from an observers perspective?

    How do we know when we've done enough repenting to satisfy God for the purposes of salvation?

    How do we know when someone else has done enough repenting to be considered saved?

    How often should we repent? Or, perhaps, do we need to continually repent to "keep" our salvation?

    What happens if we miss a sin or group of sins and don't fully repent of it? Say, a man who is addicted to p*rn and strays back to those websites? or a woman who is addicted to drugs and can't fully shake the habit and binges?

    Here's a biggie: Are we call to "Believe on Christ", or "Repent of our sins"(not confess, confessing is different from repenting) for the purposes of salvation?

    I should add a poll to see how many here think I'll get any discussion on this topic. Repentance always seems to be something someone else needs and that the thing needing repenting from considered obvious. :tonofbricks:
     
  2. pinoybaptist

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    it's actually an interesting topic, and I look forward to reading what others have to say.
     
  3. Jim1999

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    I always viewed repentance as being like the military command on the parade square,,,"About turn". It means to turn about and march in the opposite direction.

    When we truly repent it is not turning instantly away from every sin possible to man, but the intention of turning from man's directions to God's directions. The intention is genuine and true, but does not mean we might not error along the way and misstep, at which point the governing officer will correct us.

    Just my thoughts on repentance. Remember, all human analogies tend to fall short of divine commands.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  4. jaigner

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    I like this statement very much.

    Repentance seems to me to be a heart issue. It doesn't necessarily mean a complete change in lifestyle, but repentance is impetus for the sanctifying work of the spirit to be done in our life.
     
  5. Tom Butler

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    I don't think we should try to separate repentance and faith. Jesus didn't
    Mark 1:15 Repent ye and believe the gospel.

    Paul certainly did not.
    Acts 20:21 ...testifying...repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Some see repentance as a work, turning away from sin.

    I seen repentance as the result of the convicting and regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, who brings us to see our sin as God sees it, and as a result, we come to hate it. We also are brought to understand that we deserve punishment for sin, but God has made a way to forgiveness.

    It is as much an attitude as an act. Jim1999 has it right.
     
  6. Eagle

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    As is so often the case with you, Jim1999, well said!
     
  7. Jim1999

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    It is interesting that the first act of man during the Welsh revival of 1904 was a man's repentance........He sought forgiveness from his fellow believers.

    There was no preaching, plenty of spontaneous singing, and acts of repentance. Then followed the acts of lost souls responding to the grace of God in salvation. Absolutely amazing to read all about it.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  8. Tom Butler

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    Many years ago, I heard an audiotape of a woman who had personally witnessed the Welsh revivals. I've seen nothing like it in my lifetime. She told of people walking by a church who fell to the ground and began crying out to God.

    The revival had such a radical effect on the entire society. Pubs were nearly empty. Magistrates often came to court to find their dockets empty of criminal and civil cases.

    This revival was sovereignly poured out, not worked up. And it was unplanned.
     
    #8 Tom Butler, Jul 30, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2010
  9. annsni

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    Amen to both you and Jim. :)
     
  10. Eagle

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    I call this, The Principle of Abba Father.

    In a nutshell, it is the principle that if we are saved, then the Holy Spirit sends forth an empirical (that is, derived, or learned from, experience) evidence that we are, in fact, the child of God.

    For instance, when I was saved, I first, wrestled with God. For some time (months) I had thought that I was saved because I had intellectually accepted the reality of Christ. However, my life did not reflect a Christian 'walk' - far from it.

    I was not from a Christian family. My family was dirt poor, my father had left 4 of us with mom. I was utterly hopeless. I had no vision, or hope, for a successful or 'happy' life whatsoever - especially if I could not party and drink alcohol for a 'good' time! I was under sore conviction from the Holy Spirit. But, what did this Christian life look like? How do I 'do' it? I don't know how to begin - let alone where it might end.

    Nevertheless, as I wrestled with God, one morning at work, I came to the conclusion that, "If God is real, and I believe that He is, and if this is what He says I must do (i.e., recognize my sin for what it is, give up my 'vices,' and turn towards Him), then He is able to 'make' 'it' happen (whatever 'it' may be) - for my good." (I think that maybe 'for my good' was a greater concern than 'for His glory,' at the time! :)) I now neared the completion of my wrestling, I surrendered, and in my heart I said, "Therefore, I must, and will, simply, do it."

    It is somewhat difficult to express the overwhelming physical sensation that I experienced on a personal, inward, intimate, level at that moment. It occurred at the very instant, that in my heart, I repented first, and then trusted in God. This was a totally empirical evidence, outside of the Bible, that is a "knowing" of all that I wrestled with is true. That God is real, and that He is able, and worthy, and that I had chosen correctly. This gives me assurance that, tho I will/do screw up - He is as faithful as He said He would be. This is what preachers mean, I think, when they say, "when you know, that you know, that you know, that you're saved!"

    My point and relevance to the OP? That, to some degree, I believe that The Principle of Abba Father, should be at work in every believer - this is what the above scriptures teach. It actually took me years to fully understand and embrace exactly what did happen that day, in a back room, at Pizza Hut! It is not much spoken about or preached on. It is true repentance, and God's response to it.

    Take note here also, of two things:

    1) This 'experience' is a 'down payment' or a little taste of a future heavenly reality, the "earnest expectation", of Romans 8:19.

    2) We are having to be reminded here by the author of Romans, of this very reality! No matter how intense our "Abba Father" may have been (and Paul's was pretty intense!), we still question at times, or wonder, or wander. This is, unfortunately, normal, for the Christian experience - at least for a time.
     
    #10 Eagle, Jul 30, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2010
  11. brucebaptist

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    my 2 cents would be.... we are saved by faith. if we are truly saved and filled with the HS we will repent. repentance is a gift from God thru grace. faith is a gift of God thru grace.

    if truly saved, the HS will convict us of our sins. i got a long way to go... but when i sin now, i usually feel sick afterwards.

    as i study the Word and get it on my heart, when i do sin, there is a Bible verse sounding off in my head correcting me...

    today my wife bugged me... immediately, Col 3:19 popped in my head... "husbands be ye not bitter with your wives"... so i immediately changed my attitude with her...

    Romans 10:8
    But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

    i think thats what the Word does... it permeates our hearts so that as we live every day life, we act out the Word in our hearts and lives...

    back to repentance... a person can repent a thousand times but if they worship buddha, it will be in vain. we have to worship in spirit and in Truth.

    i know many 'Christians' that profess Christ but have never repented of their old ways and sins. they still live like the debil but go to church thinking they are saved. i am not saying they are not saved but our life will bear fruit if truly saved.

    repentance is a gift from God and will come with sanctification, which is a slow process, and also a gift from God.

    we should never think of repentance as something that will save us similar to water baptism.

    repentance should be something we do because we are saved not to be saved. if there is no true repentance in our lives, maybe we are not truly saved.

    we are called to live holy lives. not to be saved but because we are saved... we should repent as compelled by the HS which will hopefully be less and less as we are sanctified...
     
  12. stilllearning

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    Hello menageriekeeper

    First you asked.......
    The amount isn’t the issue: It’s what we repent of, that is important.
    (The only sin we need to repent of for salvation, is the sin of rejecting Christ!)
    -The only sin, that can send someone to hell.-
    --------------------------------------------------
    Next you asked.....
    We won’t, until we see their fruit.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Next.....
    No; We didn’t save ourselves, so we can “lose” ourselves.
    And we should repent, every time we sin......
    1 John 1:9
    “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

    --------------------------------------------------
    Next.........
    If the man is saved, he will be miserable: (A saved person will not be happy in his sin.)
    -Therefore, he will repent, or God’s chastening hand will get heaver and heaver, until he is chastened to death!-
    --------------------------------------------------
    Next.......
    There is power in repentance, if your saved: So if this woman is saved and truly repents, than God will give her a victory over this sin.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Next.......
    The Gospel calls us to "Believe on Christ": And this requires us to repent of rejecting Him.

    When Jesus preached repentance in the Gospels, it was to the Jews(God’s people), and He was calling on them to repent and come back to God.
     
  13. menageriekeeper

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    But aren't we rejecting Christ if we carry on committing sins that are clearly described elsewhere in scripture? Say for instance, allowing a arguement to grow into bitterness between you and your brother?
     
  14. stilllearning

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    Sin is sin............
    James 2:10
    “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.”


    But not all sin is the same..........
    Jeremiah 16:12
    “And ye have done worse than your fathers; for, behold, ye walk every one after the imagination of his evil heart, that they may not hearken unto me:”


    And not all sin, is rejecting Christ.
     
  15. Luke2427

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    Repentance is essential to salvation. The word "repent" means to "change one's mind".

    It is a transformation of the way one thinks.

    Before conversion his ideals were depraved. After conversion his ideals are Christ's ideals. Before conversion his goals were corrupt. After conversion his goals are for Christ and his glory.

    It is inward but one can logically expect by and by to see the fruits of this overhaul of thinking make their way to the surface.
     
  16. Jon-Marc

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    I'm reminded of the Publican and the Pharisee in the Bible. The Pharisee stood and proudly proclaimed what a good person he was, while the Publican simply said "God, be merciful to me, a sinner." It said that he went away justified (proclaimed 'not guilty') rather than the Pharisee.

    It didn't matter how much good the Pharisee did (tithing, helping the poor), nor how good he thought he was. His pride got in the way of Him being forgiven. The Publican meekly humbled himself and proclaimed himself a sinner. He didn't try to justify himself or boast on his accomplishments or his own goodness. He recognized that he was a sinner and admitted to God that he needed His forgiveness.
     
  17. freeatlast

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    That is a great question. I am afraid that in today's world and church repentance very much miss-understood.

    here is what you asked;
    Question
    "How do we know when we've done enough repenting to satisfy God for the purposes of salvation?"

    Answer;
    repentance is not a condition that comes in spurts or amounts. In other words repentance for salvation is not 50%, 75%, or 99%. True repentance for salvation is 100%. In other words the person is turning to God without conditions. They may not know all that is involved in following Him or what He calls us too, but they are from their inner most being (the heart) surrendering to Him as their Lord and Master. As they learn of what He wants of us they conform to it. That is called sanctification. This (repentance) is brought about because they recognize that they have been choosing to live in the past in sin. Then comes faith. The person hears the gospel and they take that heart of repentance and place it on Jesus Christ and salvation takes place. We will know we are saved as we look at our lives and how we are now living according to His word. Jesus said it this way.
    John 14:15,24
    "If you love Me keep My commandments.
    "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.
    1john 2:4 says;
    He who says "I know Him" and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.
    So we can see how we can know if we have repented.

    Question;
    'How do we know when someone else has done enough repenting to be considered saved?'

    Answer:
    same as above. The scripture says in Matt 12:13;
    "Either make the tree good and its fruit good or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit.
    You will know them by how they live. Here is a good test for both ourselves and another. When a Christian sins it not only shocks those around them because they are not like the world for sinning, but it shocks themselves. So when you hear or see someone who claims to be a Christian and you are not shocked because this is a common occurrence then you can know they are not saved.

    Question;
    "How often should we repent? Or, perhaps, do we need to continually repent to "keep" our salvation?"

    Answer;
    repentance is a once done forever deal when is comes to salvation. However it is also not ended. Repentance unto salvation is a state which the true believer lives in. It is not about repenting on a day and getting saved and then some other day needing to re-do it. The saved are not in a state of obedience one month or year and in a state of rebellion the next month or year or years. That person was never saved! Repentance is a state where once we have done it and saved we live our lives in because the Spirit keeps us in it and we can never leave it.
    Here is a scripture on it;
    1John 3:9
    Whoever has been born of God does not sin for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin because he has been born of God.

    Once we repent we are kept in that state forever by the Spirit. Keep in mind that repentance and confession are two different things. We do need to confess in those times we sin, but sinning will not be the practice for the truly saved.

    Question;
    "What happens if we miss a sin or group of sins and don't fully repent of it? Say, a man who is addicted to p*rn and strays back to those websites? or a woman who is addicted to drugs and can't fully shake the habit and binges?"

    Answer;
    if someone is not in the state of repentance they are not saved. We all sin from time to time. Not because we have too but because our love for the Master is not perfect. If a Christian should do any sin they will be convicted to confess that sin. The Greek for confess is not like our usual understanding of the English word confess. We usually think of a confession is to admit we did something or bring it to light. God already knows. That is not the Greek word. Actually there are two Greek words that are translated into one English word. The Greek words mean "to say the same thing" In other words we who are truly confessing are in the same state of mind that God is about our sin. We are not simply stating what we did to God but we are turning from it and we are given forgiveness. However this forgiveness is not for salvation. It is for continuation of the benefits of the relationship we have with being His child.

    Question;
    "Here's a biggie: Are we call to "Believe on Christ", or "Repent of our sins"(not confess, confessing is different from repenting) for the purposes of salvation?"

    Answer;
    The bible never says repent of our or your sins in regards to salvation. It simply says repent or repentance towards God. Many people repent of their sin, but they never come to the part for salvation and repent towards God. It is one thing to clean up our act, but another to surrender to God. That is works salvation. I have heard it said that at a minimum of 50% of those who attend church on any Sunday morning and think that they are save really are not. That means numerically that if you are saved the person on each side of you is lost. That is shocking. I have done some research on this and many evangelical pastors think it is around 75 or 80% of the people who are lost. Keep in mind Jesus did say that many will say Lord, Lord, only to hear I never knew you.
    So the term "believe on Christ" does not mean that we believe the facts,or even believe He will save me if I pray a prayer of faith. Rather it means that we have surrendered to Him for who He is, Lord and Master, not simply in understanding but by my actual surrender to Him as Lord and Master! All I do in word or deed is done for and by Him.

    Let me give a short testimony here on this. I came from a very sinful lifestyle, you can read about it here www.gerald285.com . I was not saved until I was in my 30s and now I am 60. From the moment of my salvation there has not been a month, not a week, not a day, not an hour, not a minute that I am not aware of the presence of the Lord. Even in my sleep many times I am aware of Him. He is always saying don't do that, or don't go here, this is all right and so on. I am always aware of His leading. Sometimes He says you did bad and I need to confess. So for the true Christian Christ is always leading and we are always following with an occasional sin that we confess.
    God bless
     
  18. Eagle

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    Good stuff, freeatlast.
     
  19. menageriekeeper

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    Though I was saved as a child, I find my experience is the same as yours. I am puzzled not only by the fact that so many who call themselves Christian don't feel this way, but also that our churches do not seem effective in teaching that we ought to literally feel the presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives.

    Back on topic:

    Free at last, did you see my additional question in post 13?
     
  20. Jim1999

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    Repentance is an essential aspect of preservation or perseverance of the saints. It has nothing to do with our eternal salvation, which is all of grace.

    On the other point, I cannot say that I have always been aware of the Lord's leading. There have been times when I had a lot of questions about what I was doing or planning to do.

    For example; Is God calling me to pastor this or that church, or is it my personal ambitious desire, and I liken it to a calling to fulfil my personal wishes.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     

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