Repentence and the elect

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salamander, Jan 22, 2008.

  1. Salamander

    Salamander
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    Is repentence necessary for the elect?

    Ok, whichever, yes or no, are the elect the only ones that can repent?

    What happens "IF" the non-elect repent?
     
  2. bbas 64

    bbas 64
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    Good Day, Salamander

    2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;


    Repentance first must be granted, before one can repent. Those who are not given (from God) repentance will not nor can they repent.

    In Him,

    Bill
     
  3. JustChristian

    JustChristian
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    Of course, since they have no free will everything must be dictated by God. Right?
     
  4. bbas 64

    bbas 64
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    Good Day, Baptist Believer

    Not sure how germaine your comments are to the text I posted, draw some premise for me of your basis.

    In Him,

    Bill
     
  5. jcjordan

    jcjordan
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    Are feathers and necessary for a bird? Yes
    Are birds the only animals with feathers? Yes
    What happens if a human has feathers? Then it's not a human, it's a bird!
     
  6. Martin

    Martin
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    ==Yes, God calls all people to repent (Acts 17:30). Only the elect will but all are called to.


    ==Can't happen (Rom 3:9-18, Jn 6:44,65, 2Tim 2:25).
     
  7. EdSutton

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    First off, welcome to the Baptist Board.

    Second, what do your comments have to do with the topic?

    Third, while a bird may be said to be "the only amimals with feathers", it would appear they may well not be 'the only 'creartures' with feathers'.(Ex. 25:20; 37:9; I Ki. 6:27; 8:7; II Chron. 5:7-8; Ezek. 10:5, 8; 11:22; Rev. 4:7-8; Isa. 6:1,2,6)

    They all have wings, in the Scriptures I cited.

    Perhaps it is just me, but somehow I cannot envision 'bat-style' or 'airplane' style wings on God's cherubim, seraphim, and the living creatiures that surround the holy throne of God, and the mercy seat.

    Again, welcome to the Baptist Board.

    Ed
     
    #7 EdSutton, Jan 22, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2008
  8. EdSutton

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    I suspect BaptistBeliever is being a bit sarcastic, here, although I admit, I do not know that for certain. Regardless, welcome to the Baptist Board.

    Ed
     
  9. donnA

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    Everything is dictated by God, otherwise He wouldn't be in control, wouldn't be sovereign.
     
  10. DeafPosttrib

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    BaptistBeliever said:

    I understand what he was talking. His question seems trick to you. But, you should be aware that he is not Calvinist. He is challenging to calvinists on this question.

    Calvinism's one of the Five Points on this question, that it is called, "Total Depravity", it teaches us, we all are totally out of control, not able to respond or have ability to believe or respond toward God's call. Because we are all dead-spiritual.

    So, his point is, we don't have the free will nothing at all, so, does that mean, God is control as dicate in everything over us as robot as for 24 hours daily?

    BaptistBeliever, am I right?

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  11. pinoybaptist

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    I would like to believe that what you said is not exactly verbatim, Donna.
    Don't misunderstand me, I am as much an adherent to the Doctrine of Grace as you are, but I do not believe that God dictates everything otherwise that means God dictates sin in both the elect and the non-elect's lives.
    I believe that God worked out and works out His will in the lives of His children but only as it pertains to their eternal and timely salvation.
    Sin in the life of a child of God, for example, is a result of his/her fallen nature residing in his/her flesh.
    I do not think God dictates to man those things and choices which result out of his nature and as required by his environment.
    For example, is the choice of our daily underwear God's dictate ? Or the color of socks we will wear ? Or the decision we make with regards our work and workplaces ?
    Did God dictate the choice David made regarding Bathsheba, and consequentially, Uriah ? Or the disobedience of Moses and of Paul, the latter regarding His order for Paul not to go to Jerusalem ?
    To say that God dictates everything is to come dangerously close to the erroneous doctrine of Absolute Predestination.
     
  12. pinoybaptist

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    Necessary for what ?
     
  13. jcjordan

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    My point is that the original question didn't make any sense. O.K., maybe my comparison did have a few shortcomings. My point is that the non-elect don't repent. It is against their nature. If someone were to repent, then it would be evidence that they are indeed elect.
    Thanks for the warm welcome.
     
    #13 jcjordan, Jan 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2008
  14. Tom Butler

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    Here is the scripture which answers the question in the OP:

    Romans 8:7-8 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
     
  15. Dr. L.T. Ketchum

    Dr. L.T. Ketchum
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    If the depraved are "totally out of control," is that something God is not in control of (sovereign over)? Or, is God's sovereignty more about adjudication than causation?
     
  16. Dr. L.T. Ketchum

    Dr. L.T. Ketchum
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    Yes, except Romans chapter eight is not talking about lost people living in their depravity. Romans chapter eight is talking about saved people living carnally.
     
  17. Dr. L.T. Ketchum

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    You cannot have it both ways. If you accept Calvinism's doctrine of Sovereign Grace, you accept their doctrine of indeterminate causation (God can only be in absolute control when He is the absolute cause of all things). That is a dark side of Calvinism most Calvinists want to run away from and is a point where you separate true Calvinists from Quasi-Calvinists and Pseudo-Calvinists (anything less than five-pointers).
     
  18. bbas 64

    bbas 64
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    Good day, Deafposttrib

    Do you have a source for this "out of control".

    Did not Jesus say in Jn 6, no man can come to me. That is a universal inabilty on the part of man.

    I guess that would depend on how you define free-will, a will that is effected / constrained by external forces that it can not control is by no means "free" in the objective sense of the word.

    Recommend reading "free-wiill" a slave by CH Spurgeon

    "Free agency we may believe in, but free-will is simply ridiculous"

    http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0052.htm

    In Him,

    Bill
     
  19. DeafPosttrib

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    Calvinism saying of Total Deparvity means all people cannot have the ability to respond or to believe on Christ because, we were all born sin. Till God touch person by the Holy Spirit, THEN believe in Christ become saved.

    The point is, Calvinism teaching that we all have no free will and decision and choices, ONLY God touch us first.

    So, my point is, does God dicate over us everything like as we are God's robot?

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  20. bbas 64

    bbas 64
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    Good Day, DeafPosttrib

    What does no man can come to me mean?

    You have yet to define free-will, so I really am unable to address the question.

    Robots no "pots" yes, his creations made for his sole purpose deterimed by his will YES.

    Dan 4:35 all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, "What have you done?"

    In Him,

    Bill
     

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