Responsibility for jobs and post HS education

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Salty, Mar 9, 2010.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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    I had started a post about the minimum wage, which curved into single mothers not having good jobs because they had insufficient education.

    Here is my question: Is it the responsibility of the government (if so, which level) to provide for the education and living expenses of adults? Would it make a difference if they have children?

    If it is not the responsibility of the govt, then who should be helping individuals who are not a asset to society? Family, friends, church, social agys? Should churches and agcys be allowed to have requirements as they deem necessary while providing help.?

    Salty

    ps, in the other thread, those needing help were single mothers - how about single dads - I detect some sexism there?...
     
  2. matt wade

    matt wade
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    Why should single mothers get any help from the government? What makes them so special that my tax dollars should pay for them to get an education, or anything else? Most single mothers are single mothers because of poor choices they have made in their lives. (Notice I said most, I understand that most does not mean all, do you?)

    As with all charity, I believe that it should be handled by private organizations, whether that is a church, ministry, or some secular organization. Stop over taxing American citizens and let them decide where their money goes.

    Should a private organization be allowed to have requirements on who they help? You better believe they should! They should be able to restrict charitable giving any way they wish. (and yes, I mean any)
     
  3. padredurand

    padredurand
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    Salty, please pardon me if this derails your thread. I keep on hearing and reading how folk can improve their financial situation by better education and an improved skill set. It got me thinking about my own situation.

    I am a bi-vocational pastor. I have no doubt God called me to serve where I am - small rural church plant in an economically depressed area. I work a full-time job outside the church that provides the bulk of our income and health insurance. I'm not out looking for another church. God has called me here and I will stay as long as there is no question about the call.

    Do I need more education? Suffice it to say I have enough to get my resume noticed by most pulpit committees. Not to mention I'm over-educated for the secular job. I drive a bus for a non-profit that serves the developmentally disabled community. In January I took over a route that provides contracted shuttle service to the local community college. I taught at that college. My faculty ID card gets me a large Starbucks for $2 in the bookstore! :thumbsup:

    Five years ago I was pastoring in a mainline denomination, teaching part-time and making about three times my current income. I work much harder now with far fewer monetary rewards. I had to chuckle at a flier I got in the mail a while back. It was from the local food pantry stating the income guidelines for their services. I'm eligible.

    Paul wrote, "Not that I speak from want; for I have learned to be content in whatever circumstances I am. I know how to get along with humble means, and I also know how to live in prosperity; in any and every circumstance I have learned the secret of being filled and going hungry, both of having abundance and suffering need." Philippians 4:11-12 NAS77

    Been there, done that without the benefit of the T-shirt. Nonetheless, after living well below the government's poverty threshold I can say without reservation that my family does not have a single unmet need. I have unmet wants in abundance but do not have any unmet needs.

    I would love to have a new truck. That is a want. I need safe reliable transportation. I have that. I want to live in a nice home in the country with room to raise some goats. I need a safe warm place to shelter my family. I have that. I want many things but need few. I can honestly say that I have ever missed a meal because there wasn't enough. There's been quite a few thin meals along the way but that is the exception not the rule.

    Paul points out two things that will never be part of a government plan. The first thing I learned is that neither the church nor my employer supply my income. Only God has promised to meet all my needs. Only God can deliver on that promise (Phil 4:19). The second is my attitude. Paul said he learned how to be content regardless of the circumstance. Folks that cannot find contentment with little will never find it with much.

    I have found contentment in obedience. I could triple my income and reduce my working hours by a third with a single phone call. I'm sure I could justify it in my own mind. I have the education and experience. I deserve more. But that is not where God has called me.
     
  4. Salty

    Salty
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    Padre,

    Three key words - want - need - Lord's will :saint:

    Salty

    ps, now how do I get Mrs Salty to want to move out in the county! (anything more than 1/4 mile outside the city limits is the boonies to her:tear:
     
  5. Martin

    Martin
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    ==I don't believe it is the "responsibility" of the government (federal, state, or local) to help adults attend college (university or community college). However, I do believe that it is a good idea. I don't mind the government using my tax money to help educate people who want an education so they can get a better job (etc). Having said that, the current system is being abused (big time). There needs to be higher standards for those students who receive gov't funds. If they can't maintain a "B" average in their studies then they should not continue to get the funds. There should also be a time limit on on the funds so that they don't fiddle around taking almost every course the college offers and jumping from one degree program to another. If tighter controls were in place such programs would really benefit society.


    ==It would be nice if more churches (etc) would help people who need an education get an education.
     
  6. billwald

    billwald
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    50 years ago a kid who graduated from HS was qualified to apply for any union apprenticeship and 75% of the available jobs. Now days a kid needs 2 years of college to get a HS education unless they take AP classes.
     
  7. gb93433

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    Then let's do away with compulsory education and public universities too.
     
  8. targus

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    It seems that you are being sarcastic and are in favor of the government providing continuing education to adults.

    If so what would be your cut off and based on what criterion?
     
  9. StefanM

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    1) I wouldn't require a "B" average. If a college says a C is sufficient for a degree, why penalize a C student? Besides, if the government adopted that proposal, IMO, you'd just see a lot more grade inflation, not necessarily more effort.

    Moreover, when a student comes from a needy background, sometimes the prior education is lacking. It's not necessarily just because the student is lazy or incapable of learning. If we penalize this student by de-funding him for a C (a passing grade, mind you), we risk throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

    2) There is a time-limit on funds. Generally you must complete a program within 150% attempted credits of the credits required for the degree. For example, you must complete a 120 hr degree within 180 attempted credits. Is it the strictest limit? No, but it's also hard to be too stringent on 18 year olds who may not know what they really want to study until a few years in.

    IMO, the biggest area for fraud is in filling out the FAFSA. It is VERY easy to lie and to get more grant money than you should receive. This drove me crazy when I worked in financial aid. If I had evidence, I reported it, but sometimes I could tell something just wasn't right, but I had no proof. It's amazing how people can support 4 kids on $3000, you know?
     
  10. gb93433

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    The educated tend to make more money and the money spent is easily recovered as opposed to the uneducated.

    The government does provide the bulk of education money for adults already.
     
  11. targus

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    So what limits - if any - would you place on it?
     
  12. gb93433

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    For the purposes of further training. It does no good to pay out unemployment for the unemployable.
     
  13. Martin

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    ==Maybe a "B" requirement is too much. So I retract that, a "C" would be the right minimum grade point average to receive government funds.

    ==Current time limits vary from program to program, state to state, and college to college. I know of students who have been soaking up Pell money for years (literally) while they jump from program to program and take almost every class the college offers. While there have been efforts made to crack down on this, not enough has been done (IMO).
     
  14. Salty

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