Responsible people vs Government

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Gina B, Nov 9, 2003.

  1. Gina B

    Gina B
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    I made the following comment in another thread:
    John V responded with the following statement:
    I have something to say about that. (shocking, isn't it? :D )

    The mindset displayed in John's response is something I'm fighting tooth and nail to combat in my county.
    Why do simple matters require us to involve government officials? In the above quotes, the situation in question is an adult slapping another adult.
    I find the response that "a crime has been committed and the police should be involved" to be extremely drastic. We as a people are becoming co-dependant on the government to solve every little problem we have. We're big people, we do not need to call men with guns and government authority into our lives over every altercation. Some things, CORRECTION MOST THINGS, should be able to be handled among adults.
    We also have police called when one child hits another child. What is WRONG with people? Why would you do that? Can you really not figure out what to do? Last year I watched a family call the police because some kids knocked their snowman over. Why didn't they just either rebuild the snowman or go tell the parents what happened? Nope, they call in armed officers. ROFL
    What would YOU do if a neighbor slapped you during a disagreement? Would you really feel there's nothing to do but call in armed workers? Why not walk away, or if needed defend yourself and then walk away, and try to resolve the situation with your neighbor when things cool down?
    I see in the police reports constantly that a so was warned about loud music. In the apartment complex I lived in people did it all the time. Not once did I see someone go say to the neighbor "Hey, can you quiet down, or turn your music down?" Nope, they called in armed men to go talk to the neighbors.
    Come on now, use some common sense, people! If someone shoots at you call the police. If you get in an argument and someone slaps you go get yourself a pepsi! If someone robs you call the police. If they simply knock over your snowmen GET OVER IT! [​IMG]
    The government and society so far have convinced us we're nothing but victims, incapable of handling anything that comes our way without counselors and psychologists and psychiatrists and police officers and social workers.
    WHY WHY WHY is everyone falling for it???
    Gina
     
  2. PastorGreg

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    Well stated, Gina.
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Gina,

    Do you go around slapping your neighbors. I can tell you that if you laid a hand on my wife or child, the alternative for me calling the police would be for me to beat on you untill you were dead. I probably wouldn't stop. Which would you rather I do? I choose to, instead of going to prison or death row, to call the police. If you break the law, then don't whine and complain when you face the consequences of your actions. It is a crime. If you touch my wife, you better pray the police put you in protective custody before I get there (jail).

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  4. Brett

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    I agree for the most part, but if someone slaps somebody else, are they really mature enough to diffuse the situation in a reasonable manner, without some kind of authority intervening?

    Joseph, Jesus called for us to turn the other cheek. An eye for an eye is no longer the law.
     
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I agree Brett. But since I realize that my weakness will not allow myself to remain calm and not commit violence on this person, that is why I would choose to call the police first and give them a head start.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Furthermore, Gina,

    What would you expect you husband to do to remedy the situation? What if you left a mark on my wife? What if you were not married? What if your husband is a bigger thug than you are? (Hypothetically speaking, of course.)

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  7. Gina B

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    Joseph, I can imagine you'd be quite upset if I did so, but you honestly think that you would kill or seriously harm a woman for having an light altercation with your wife that didn't really cause any lasting harm? :confused:
    No, I don't go around slapping my neighbor Joseph. ROFL! The thought may have crossed my mind before though...but...I'm quite peaceloving. The last time I laid a finger on another adult was a few years ago when a wife decided to hit her husband. I physically removed her from where she was and we had a few words and she calmed down. No police were involved, although she left marks on him. The only other time I got into anything physical with another female was once in high school, and that was in self defense. Nobody called the police then either!
    But anyhow...if you're that violent that it's either kill someone for slapping your wife or call the police, call the police instead of killing someone. PLEASE! It's also against the law to use excessive force in self-defense btw.
    Gina
     
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

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    A husband's and father's rage could go very far indeed. I readily acknowledge that it would be unlawlful for me to do so. But I honestly can't garantee that I won't do serious bodily harm to someone who harms my wife or my son. I might get the death penalty. I might go to prison. Or, I might get aquitted for temporary insanity. None of these are really appealing to me, and sense I can't say what I might do, I think I would choose to call the police. I am not generally a violent person unless I am defending those who I love. I have never really had to do that, though (which is a blessing from God). I had nightmares when my wife was pregnant that different people were trying to harm my wife and I could feel the adrenaline rushing through me and I saw myself punching, kicking the person and slamming their heads against the ground in a rage over and over again untill they were dead. This scares me a lot because I do know that I do have ther potential to cause serious harm to people if I were to ever be pushed that far. I try to be as peaceful as I can and avoid situations that would provoke me to violence. Since I know I have the potential for that kind of rage and violence, I think it would be best for me to call the police. Now, Gina, ask yourself this. Am I the only one that has feelings like this? Is it possible that it may be better to call the police who are emotionally detatched from the situation than it is for a person whose wife has just been slapped to calmly and cooly work it out with the offending party. I think you might be just a little unreasonable in your expectations here. What do you think?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  9. Gina B

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    I do not find it unreasonable to expect adults to not needed armed strangers to help resolve simple situations. While one may not smile calmly and sit down for a cup of tea to talk it over, indeed a person might react by slapping the other person back or at the least physically removing them from the person they offended, and that's about it.
    I seriously don't expect that most of the population would react in the way you feel you might. However, for people that might react like you would then yes, go ahead and call as a preventive measure to the situation getting out of control.
    Now, I'm going to pm you about a possible medical cause for your dreams so please read it.
    Gina
     
  10. Watchman

    Watchman
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    Gina,
    What you have discribed here is battery. This is a crime. The Lord Jesus would never excuse such behavior. The authorities do have a proper function and Paul makes it clear that they are, in fact, the servants of God. Whether they are employees of the government is irrelevent, they are still the servants of God.
    Those who commit violence belong in jail.
     
  11. Dr. Bob

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    As much as possible, live peaceably with all men. Read that somewhere. :rolleyes:

    But if THEY are not peaceable, I will call the police. No question about it. You hit my wife and I'd try to step in and settle it. But if I could not, I'd have 911 in a flash.

    And remind me never to get Jbot mad at me . . :eek:
     
  12. Thankful

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    This brings up an interesting point. It depends on what we as individuals want if we do or do not want government involvement.

    When we dislike something, we write letters, e-mails, etc. to our Government Leaders from the state level to the Federal level. (Remember the Florida Legislators' email boxes being flooded recently in a personal decision case )

    It seems that we want the government involved when it fits our agenda. And then we want them to "bug" out when we don't like it.

    We are the government. We elect the representatives. We tell them what we want. Maybe we are to blame?
     
  13. Johnv

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    Why not put the blame where it is: The person who abuses is wrong. What would you suggest? A fist fight? A duel? A gunfight? Taking the law into your own hands results in lawlessness.
     
  14. Johnv

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    That is one of the most understood and most abused verses in the Bible. Jesus DID NOT advocate allowing someone to sin ot commit a crime. Rather, he advocated not allowing the one who transgreses against you to have any power over you. The Bible also states very plainly and repeatedly that, to allow a sin to take place, you become a participant in the sin.
     
  15. Gina B

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    Why not put the blame where it is: The person who abuses is wrong. What would you suggest? A fist fight? A duel? A gunfight? Taking the law into your own hands results in lawlessness. </font>[/QUOTE]I used slapping someone as an example of a small thing, by no means was it the only thing I was speaking of.
    If I get in a verbal altercation with my sister and she becomes angry and slaps me I wouldn't call, and further I'd think it would have been wrong of me to do so. I would not suffer mental anguish and feel like an abused person whose attacker should be behind bars.
    I do go a lot farther than many people in not calling the government in to help, I'll admit that much. Someone tried to come into my home once while my husband and children were inside. I was outside and saw him at the door making his attempt and confronted him and he left. I was ticked enough to follow after him and he never showed up again. It never occurred to me to call the police. What would be the point? The crime was averted and he left.
    Another similar situation...someone was jimmying the lock on the door of my friends home at 2:30 am. He woke up and heard a noise, glanced out the window and saw the person crouched down with tools working on the door. He walked up and punched through the glass window of the door and got the guy, who turned and ran, pretty bloodied. The situation was over. He never called because he didn't need help. Now, a nosey neighbor called because she saw the trail of blood on the porch the next morning, and he explained what happened to the police. They were shocked he didn't call. But why should he have? He didn't suffer any losses or injuries (amazingly enough) apart from needing to replace the glass, which he had the money to do. Judging from the blood on the porch the guy breaking in wasn't going to be feeling too hot for a while. He figured it was his right and job to protect his home. He ws chided by officers though for taking the situation into his own hands, although they were a bit amused by how he did it! [​IMG]
    Now, I'm not a guy and would have called as soon as I saw someone messing with the door, but in this situation he knew he could handle it and he did. Neither one of us are wrong in how we would handle it IMO. He didn't call, I would have.
    Does you think that how we view these things might be affected by the size of the community we live in? It seems to me that in very large cities or very very small towns people don't call officers in as much for the small things, but sorta small and medium townspeople go bananas and call if there's a cat stuck in a tree. LOL
    Gina
     
  16. Caretaker

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    Gina L:
    I was outside and saw him at the door making his attempt and confronted him and he left. I was ticked enough to follow after him and he never showed up again. It never occurred to me to call the police. What would be the point? The crime was averted and he left.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


    The crime may have been averted, Gina, when the criminal was scared-off, but the one NOT calling the police is to blame because that criminal is still at large. The next time that burglar may be successful, and the victim a helpless elderly or woman or child alone. Suppose he went right over two blocks and broke into an elderly ladie's house, and the police did not have your description, and location in order to hunt this predator down.

    It is criminal to not do all one can to take predators off the streets. I am apalled that anyone, seeing a criminal in action, would not call the police immediately. Our refusal to act makes us culpable.


    I am really angry that your friend thought that punching through the glass, punching the perp and scaring him off was enough. Not calling the police left that predator to roam the streets looking for an easier target, a more helpless victim. This is so self-absorbed and unbelievably negligent to not care about ones neighbors and those vulnerable to predation.


    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  17. Gina B

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    Drew, I've seen enough of the justice system to know nothing would have been done.
    In my case I had no witnesses apart from myself. I could not prove he was crouched in front of my door with his ear to it and trying the handle, let alone with a bad intent in mind.
    In my neighbors case what would have happened? Not much. The guy would have been found to have been in possession of criminal tools. Whoopee. Then you don't just have a criminal, you have a criminal ticked off at you who's free to come back in a few days. Had he gotten in the house while the cops were being waited for perhaps one of the children would have been harmed. I can't blame him for his reaction.
    Gina
     
  18. ShagNappy

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    I get what you are saying Gina and to some extent I agree with you. However, we also have to keep in mind people like Joseph exist. Unfortunately, people like him outnumber those of us who are capable of controlling ourselves these days. So more and more the police are necessary so you don't get murdered in your neighbors driveway.
     
  19. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Hey there SN,

    Are you Married? Do you have any kids? If so, if someone tried to harm them and you were around, what would you do? Try to reason with them? I care about my family so much that I would die for them. I will also kill for them as well if anyone tries to harm them.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  20. ShagNappy

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    Yes, I am a married dad. And I can say with no doubt whatsoever if another woman slapped my wife I would not kill her. I would have no desire to kill her. If I went to her house to talk to her husband and she slugged me I would not feel any urge whatsoever to kill her. I would also not want to kill her husband or anyone in her family. We are talking minor offenses here. Either you didn't read the initial post, or you are stating you would murder a woman for slapping your wife if you tried to talk to her husband because you cannot control yourself. I am certainly hoping you simply didn't read the intial post, otherwise, I would suggest intensive therapy immediately.

    However, I would agree that if someone tried to kill, or otherwise seriously harm, my wife or child they would wish for death when I was finished with them. However, since that is not the topic of this thread, it is somewhat off topic.
     

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