Restrictions

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Sherrie, Nov 30, 2002.

  1. Sherrie

    Sherrie
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    I found this and thought it was interesting. I am not saying one thing either way.

    This and more are at this web page:

    http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/fundie_cults/

    Sherrie

    [ November 30, 2002, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Sherrie ]
     
  2. TheOliveBranch

    TheOliveBranch
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    sounds like someone is confusing cults and Biblical standards.

    Did you notice the little box at the end of the article?
     
  3. Molly

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    There is a difference in wanting to be controlled by the Spirit of God,which is laid out in scrpture or being controlled by man. We do have to be careful that we are desiring to be pure because of the fear of God,not the fear of man.

    But,wanting the word of God to permeate your life is a much needed thing in christian circles today. Many do not seek Truth,just what they have been taught or the standard is still the world.

    I do not desire for legalism,and do not wish to add to scripture...but I do try to live biblically in all areas. If I fail,I learn and try again.

    I do not agree with the paragraph that was posted,because a cult to me is anti christian. I don't see dress codes and such as anti christian,but preferential ways of living,not adding to or changing the gospel.

    But,when there is talk that they are the only ones going to heaven....and it is based on externals,I would be concnerned there...that is adding to the gospel.

    [ November 30, 2002, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Molly ]
     
  4. Jim1999

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    Led by the Holy Spirit has been blamed for a lot of personal preferences being incorporated as biblical teachings quite apart from cultural differences and just plain differences in time.

    Wisdom knows the difference.

    Cheers,

    Jim

    [ November 30, 2002, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Jim1999 ]
     
  5. Helen

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    And if our wisdom is not already of help, James tells us to ask God for more and God is always going to answer that prayer with a 'yes'!

    It may not be 'cultish', but when one person informs others that he or she is more righteous than someone else because of choices made in style of living, then it seems to me the entire point of Christianity has been denied: for Christ IS our righteousness -- not what we do or say or wear!

    What we do and say and wear may reflect His righteousness, but they can never add to it or take away from it.
     
  6. hrhema

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    The little box which says Say No to Religion.

    There is some good information on this site as far as information goes but it is obvious the group who does this site is also anti-religious.

    I do know however that the group I used to belong to the United Pentecostal Church is abusive and cultic not just by what their doctrines state but by how they deal with their people.

    They have lost a lot of churches and preachers because they finally realized this. THe leadership in this group is very controlling. This is the main reason behind all the dress standards. The long list of do's and don'ts.

    You are told you should not go on vacation, or other things without pastors approval.

    If you leave you are told you will go to Hell. You will even be told this is you leave one of their churches to go to another. MAny preachers try to keep their people at their local churches by using these tactics.

    I have been personally threatened that God was going to judge me. I am now considered backslidden. A rebel. Lower than the scum of the earth.

    I see these people in malls and on streets and in stores and they don't rarely smile. They are very unfriendly to those outside their groups.
    The are self righteous and even though they say that Jesus blood saves them they really believe how they dress will take them to Heaven.

    Yet I cannot say there has not been baptist churches who have acted cultic also. I have a sister that attended a Baptist church with her children and was heavily involved in the church. Her husband was cheating on her and left her for another woman. He filed for divorce and when she made the mistake of telling one of the people in the church she was told by the pastor of the church she was no longer welcomed in his church.
    Now she won't go to any church and you cannot discuss church with her. His reason was that he was afraid she would try to steal some man away from his wife.

    When growing up my mother and dad did not go to church with me and my sister so we went to the local Baptist church. Many times when we were out playing and some of the people would see what we were wearing they would tell us we were going to Hell. If we could not stay for the main service we were going to Hell. We were told by many different Baptists that because our parents were not church goers we could not be saved. If we did not have a certain amount of money to put in the Sunday school offering plate we were called Heathen or we were going to roast in Hell.

    I do know there are churches nearly in all organizations out there who have abusive churches.
     
  7. 2Timothy4:1-5

    2Timothy4:1-5
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    I agree that we should say no to religion...

    ...man made religion that is. All religion is is mans attempt to reach God. What we need to say yes to is biblical Christianity.

    Kenneth
     
  8. rlvaughn

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    Sherrie, though you say you are not saying anything one way or the other, your use of the quote seems to have some hidden agenda. Here are the actual points of characteristics of cults from the article:
    The particular activities you seem to condemn are peripheral and may or may not have anything to do with cultism.
     
  9. GrannyGumbo

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    When the group of charismatics that crept in unawares took our son off down to the Apostolic(Oneness/Jesus-only) building, I never knew anything about cults...

    But it didn't take long to see the awful effect it had on Patrick. Much of what hrhema wrote sounds so familiar. It has devasted all our lives, but especially his 5yr.old son.
     
  10. Pastor_Bob

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    Sherrie</font>[/QUOTE]Sherrie, I know these are not your words so please do not think I am addressing you personally.

    I do not subscribe to the philosophy that these are "morally neutral" activities. Dancing with someone other than a spouse can be very damaging to a marriage. Dancing between unmarried folks can easily lead to immorality.

    Secular music often does not glorify God. It often glorifies the very lifestyle that some of us were saved out of.

    Some games (Dungeons & Dragons and others like it) are very harmful for all parties involved.

    I would not consider restrictions from these activities as "mind control;" I would consider it loving protection and a good use of the wisdom God gave us.
     
  11. Sherrie

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    Thank you Pastor Bob, as I am only sharing what I have come across. Your right, I did not write the article. There are a lot of things I do agree with and some I do not agree with. I have elected not to say anything in regards to the article for now.
    I will post mine later.
    Sherrie
     
  12. rlvaughn

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    Well, if bold highlighting means anything......
     
  13. GrannyGumbo

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    The problem I've noticed with the Onenesses that are in this area is they think they have to keep their holiness standards in order to get to heaven.

    I've been told I'm going to hell because I cut my bangs & wear liptint.
     
  14. Helen

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    That's a bunch of interesting replies so far!

    Molly, there ARE Christian cults. Some that are commonly referred to that way are Seventh Day Adventists and the Church of Christ here in the United States (that has to be qualified because "Church of Christ" in other countries may or may not be related to the group called by that name in the USA). Other groups call themselves Christian but really are not, having a different view of almost everything, although they use Christian terminology. Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses fall in this category. Very generally speaking, cults are seclusionary in ideas and often in geography as well if they are small.

    hrhema, sadly I think you are so right. It is very easy for a personally charismatic pastor to start manipulating some very willing followers, turning even the best churches into abusive, to one degree or another, churches. It is this very reason, along with doctrinal arguments ad nauseum that more and more people are leaving denominations and gravitating towards the smaller "Bible based" churches, where abuse is just as possible as anywhere else.

    I think this is one reason, perhaps, why Jesus told us to beware of false prophets -- they will look like shepherds of the flock, but we had sure better take a look at the fruit before taking from the tree!

    Granny, you are in a very, very difficult situation there! I pray God gives you the wisdom to handle it. When I was head of the education department at a church where we used to live, the group of us redesigned the entire Sunday School curriculum so that by junior high the kids would know the Bible and by the end of high school know the cults, why they were called cults, and be able to present a basic apologetic for the faith. It can be very hard to protect our children from attacks from every direction.

    And one of the ways cults control is through fear -- like the fear of hell or the fear of not being righteous, etc. Since bangs don't shoot, you are in no danger from them, OK? :D And lip coloring? How many of those girls pinch their cheeks or eat berries before something special?? I've noticed with my Mormon neighbors and friends that the teen girls can dress as modestly as anything and their attitude still says, "Come and get me!" There are some things a cult just can't control!

    Pastor, once I would have 'fought' you tooth and nail over the dancing issue, but as I get older I am thinking your point is well-taken. The one thing I would say is that when I look in on the high school dances, it's sort of like no one is dancing with anyone but they're all bouncing around on their own. That's a little healthier/safer than some other I have seen. I also remember entering dance contests when I was in high school. My partner and I would rehearse for them like crazy and the contest was truly a competition requiring concentration, enormous energy reserves, and a reasonable amount of skill. I look back on that as a form of athletics, actually! Do you also see the formal old world dances of the European countries as harmful?

    With secular music my response to my kids was to talk to them about a scale of music, from the 100% holy hymns to the 100& rot. An awful lot in the middle is very much an expression of the human condition which, at least to me, is almost like a way of communication between people expressing sympathy or joy or whatever. I think of a lot of the (real) folk songs like this, and even the nursery rhymes. I can still remember understanding the warning from "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes" back in the fifties when I was in grade school! And the silly songs that make you laugh and think at the same time ("You Can't Rollerskate in a Buffalo Herd") -- I always told my kids these were fine. Part of 'loving your neighber' means connecting with him, and there is an awful lot of secular music which is not negative at all but which provides excellent connections.

    One way I have explained God's rules to teenage youth groups is that they are like a fence around a play yard that is bounded by a freeway, a cliff, and a forest with wild animals. You are a lot safer with that fence than without it, but those who would desire to cross-fence are dividing us and that is wrong. God's laws are for our benefit; man's laws are for man's control of man. We have to have them in countries and we all understand that, but in our spiritual life and personal life, the more rules and regulations we allow to be imposed on ourselves, the less likely we are to pay attention to God. We'll be looking at following rules the same way the Pharisees of old did, with a far lessened focus on either God Himself or our neighbors, themselves.
     
  15. Molly

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    Helen,I see those groups you mentioned as cults,I guess I was thinking they were not christian because of those characeristics,even though they may claim to be christian....Like Mormon,JW etc,I don't really see them as christian,but as cults. Hope that makes sense.
     
  16. Jessie

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    [ December 11, 2002, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: Jessie ]
     

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