Resurrection in the NT

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Greektim, Sep 13, 2014.

  1. Greektim

    Greektim
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    So it seems a firestorm of sorts has begun from a full preterist wanting to eschew the ancient Christian view of the bodily resurrection of the believer.

    So I thought we could just lay out a simple Scriptural argument that says what some don't like.

    Rom 8:8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
    Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
    Rom 8:10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
    Rom 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

    &

    Rom 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.
    Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope
    Rom 8:21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
    Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
    Rom 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

    What could this mean other than a bodily, physical resurrection?

    Here is a short article by N. T. Wright entitled "Heaven is Not Our Home". It is a condensed version of his longer books. It is a good read for those wanting to understand the basics of resurrection and eschatology. I especially like the subtitle: "The bodily resurrection is the good news of the gospel—and thus our social and political mandate"

    http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/april/13.36.html
     
    #1 Greektim, Sep 13, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2014
  2. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    I am of Historical Partial Preterist brethren and the resurrection physically or not does not bother me. I believe that John says it the best.

    I John 3:2 Beloved, now we are the sons of God, and it doth not appear what we shall be: but we know that when he shall appear, we shall be just like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    To John it did not matter. John even say in the scriptures that he does not know. So why all the bickering and fighting? There is one thing he definitely does know we shall be just like Jesus. Whatever body he has John says we also will have. The same Jesus that ascended will descend in like manner. I guess nothing has changed since the time John penned down those words over 2000 years ago.

    II Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
     
  3. Aaron

    Aaron
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    Does it matter that the Resurrection of Christ was bodily?
     
  4. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    True!... But did he return in the same body after he presented himself to the Father? He told Mary touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to the Father... Why did he tell her that?... He also said to God his Father, glorify me with the glory that I had with thee before the world was.
     
  5. Greektim

    Greektim
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    Why does that verse about Jesus' glory have to do w/ a body??? Why can't it just refer to glory?
     
  6. Aaron

    Aaron
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    So? It's still a bodily resurrection.
     
  7. JamesL

    JamesL
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    The resurrection of the dead is is foundational to the gospel itself.
    If one is not certain of the bodily resurection, his foundation is weak
     
  8. asterisktom

    asterisktom
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    Christ's resurrection had to be bodily just as His crucifixion had to be bodily.

    Christ's resurrection is not the same as ours.

    Is your resurrection to be a testimony to others of your deity?
    That you had conquered death?
    Will you show to others the scars and disfiguration you suffered as a proof of this?
     
    #8 asterisktom, Sep 15, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2014
  9. Greektim

    Greektim
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    Come on, Tom. What about the 2 passages I mentioned from Rom. 8?
     
  10. JamesL

    JamesL
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    Christ's resurection is exactly the same as ours. I was engaged in this matter a couple of months ago, but it was shut down prematurely. I'd like to bring that discussion here.

    Here is a link to the thread:
    www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=92916

    As for your questions, - if I were to raise myself from the dead, it would be a testimony of my deity. But scripture says that Christ raised Himself from the dead. Nowhere are we told that we raise ourselves. The Spirit who raised Him from the dead will also give life to our mortal bodies.

    He conquered death for us.

    Scripture is silent on the matter of our scars.

    But I would hope your position would have more thrust than a few philosophical rantings designed to back someone into the proverbial corner.
     
  11. JamesL

    JamesL
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    From the previously mentioned thread where I was discussing the resurrection:

    Continued.....
     
  12. JamesL

    JamesL
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    In the thread I mentioned previously, I was asked about 1Cor 15:35-50

    Just a reminder, I was addressing a specific issue (spiritual body) with a specific person. So keep that in mind while reading.

    continued.....
     
  13. JamesL

    JamesL
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    continued.....
     
  14. asterisktom

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    Last comment first, James. I don't know you personally, but I suppose you are probably, from what I have read from you previously, a pretty decent person. With that in mind - if you really do want a discussion on this - don't write about me "ranting". That is merely perjorative. And I am not trying to back anyone in the corner. From my perspective you are already in a corner. (Of course, you would say the same for me).

    Let's be respectful. The topic is a good one. There is no reason why the discussion can't be either.

    Please consider these two quotes from you:
    1. "Christ's resurection is exactly the same as ours."
    2. "But scripture says that Christ raised Himself from the dead. Nowhere are we told that we raise ourselves."

    And yet you do not concede the point that these two resurrections are not exactly the same?
     
  15. JamesL

    JamesL
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    Thread was closed at this point, but I'd like to continue working this out here
     
  16. JamesL

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    I agree that it is a very god topic, and I wasn't trying to be disrespectful with my use of "rantings". My emphasis was aimed at philosophical arguments, which I've seen enough of around here. Apology offered.

    But no, I do not concede the point.

    What He accomplished in His resurrection, and the nature of it, are not the same issue.

    Suppose two people pick apples from a tree. One is trying to accomplish the feeding of his family, and the other is trying to accomplish the creation of an autumn collage with leaves and pumpkins.

    They both picked the same apples in the same way, but with varying accomplishments. I know it may not be the best example of an analogy, but I'm sure you get the point
     
  17. Greektim

    Greektim
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    So is anyone else going to ask Asterisktom to deal w/ the OP? It seems he has me on ignore.
     
  18. JamesL

    JamesL
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    asterisktom,
    have you seen that this post? Any reply?
     
  19. asterisktom

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    No, I haven't seen it. I got tired of being insulted and arguing with this person so I put him on ignore. Feel free to summarize and repeat any point he may have.
     
  20. Greektim

    Greektim
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    Hi pot. Meet kettle.

    I only insulted 1 post saying it was an asinine conclusion. He then responded calling me asinine. I attacked his position. He attacked the person. And he puts me on ignore. Laughable.

    He also didn't like that he had no real way of objecting to the issues I raised against his view of resurrection. In fact, I turned his argument against tradition on its head, and he didn't like it.

    And I actually gave him more credit before this.
     

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