Revelation 17

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by th1bill, Dec 31, 2011.

  1. th1bill

    th1bill
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    Revelation 17:1:
    And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
    Revelation 17:2:
    With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
    Revelation 17:3:
    So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

    One of the single most important points to remember and yet the most difficult to grasp is the illustration given in scripture that there is no relevance to earth time in Heaven. (2Pet. 3:8, Psa. 90:4) For this reason we can nad should understand, in my opinion, that John saw these things happening, first hand. I know that it is difficult to support but it is my position that the Glorified Body that Jesus now has and we will have is not at all like the body we now have in composition.

    If we can get past the natural (what we are familiar with) arguments and learn to accept the teaching of the Holy Spirit, on it's face value, it is easier to grasp what is told here. This angel did not, again, in my opinion, deliver a vision to John but rather, with the consent of God, allowed John the use of one of the normal functions of the Glorified Body and John, in this passage, is actually viewing the judgment of Babylon.

    Revelation 17:4:
    And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
    Revelation 17:5:
    And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

    So it is that here we find one of the passages, that without the Holy Spirit's input, can be extremely confusing. Remembering that we take the Bible in the Literal manor, here is a metaphor. We know from the archaeologists that Babylon is not some fable dreamed of but rather is a historical fact and if we are up on current affairs, we know that Saddam Hussein was busy rebuilding that old city again. Now we find it here in the pages of this prophecy, some 2,000 years old, represented by a whore. It is a matter worthy of prayer for understanding, meditation and study.

    Revelation 17:6:
    And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
    Revelation 17:7:
    And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

    It would seem certain that John was just as normal as the rest of us, he was impressed by what he saw. The angel, much like the Holy Spirit, in us, corrects and begins to instruct however.

    Revelation 17:8:
    The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
    Revelation 17:9:
    And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
    Revelation 17:10:
    And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
    Revelation of John 17:11:
    And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
    Revelation of John 17:12:
    And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
    Revelation of John 17:13:
    These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
    Revelation of John 17:14:
    These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

    7-14 The beast on which the woman sat was, and is not, and yet is. It was a seat of idolatry and persecution, and is not; not in the ancient form, which was pagan: yet it is; it is truly the seat of idolatry and tyranny, though of another sort and form. It would deceive into stupid and blind submission all the inhabitants of the earth within its influence, except the remnant of the elect. This beast was seven heads, seven mountains, the seven hills on which Rome stands; and seven kings, seven sorts of government. Five were gone by when this prophecy was written; one was then in being; the other was yet to come. This beast, directed by the papacy, makes an eighth governor, and sets up idolatry again. It had ten horns, which are said to be ten kings who had as yet no kingdoms; they should not rise up till the Roman empire was broken; but should for a time be very zealous in her interest. Christ must reign till all enemies be put under his feet. The reason of the victory is, that he is the King of kings, and Lord of lords. He has supreme dominion and power over all things; all the powers of earth and hell are subject to his control. His followers are called to this warfare, are fitted for it, and will be faithful in it.(MHCC)

    Revelation of John 17:15:
    And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
    Revelation of John 17:16:
    And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
    Revelation of John 17:17:
    For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
    Revelation of John 17:18:
    And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

    These last four verses give us the playbook to work from when dealing with this chapter so that we can take the meaning of this chapter and some others as literal. The Book of the Revelation is recorded in the same manor and style as the Bible, the books now called the Old Testament. The first thing we learn is that warters, plural, is often used to represent peoples of different nations and tongues or languages.

    Here, we also learn that God does exercise His sovereign will to the point that even the lost and going to Hell will do His will. This is one of the points that the Five Point Calvinist loves to use to prove their erroneous theory of Predestination. Predestination is a fact because it is taught in the Revealed Word of God. The problem enters when men take the Bible out of context.

    When we allow the scriptures to interpret themselves, the way Father God intended it becomes imperative to, as scripture teaches, understand that the wisdom of God is limitless. Then we must learn one very vital lesson from the Bible, there is no relationship with time in Heaven! (2Pet. 3:8 and Psa. 90:4) It is my opinion from the study I did, some years ago, that God is. To explain; As demonstrated by these scriptures and a book I read recently, ¨Heaven Is For Real,¨ God is, simultaneously in the present, the past and the future. So it is that God knows the future.

    I´m not saying that God that God will not, has not nor that He will not force His will on the lost. Clearly, He has and from the prophetic readings, he will. But, before He created the universes, He knew the names in the Book of Life. From our reading, meditating and praying over the scriptures, we know that our God is not a cruel God, He is Just! It is the Calvinist´s view that God creates a few to go to Heaven and all the rest to spend eternity in Hell, NOT! If a man has read the scriptures, he or she knows that God loves all of His creation but He is also a Just God and will serve justice.
     

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