Revelation 18

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by th1bill, Jan 7, 2012.

  1. th1bill

    th1bill
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    Revelation 18:1:
    And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
    Revelation 18:2:
    And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
    Revelation 18:3:
    For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

    Another angel from heaven proclaims the fall of mystical Babylon. MHCC

    In chapter 17 we saw the righteous Judgment of the Great Whore that ¨sitteth on many waters¨ a.k.a. Many peoples and nations and here we find mystical Babylon going down with her. There are many faces of this proclamation for possible examination and not many of them should be dogmatically taught. This being said we must, however, never be willing to compromise what the text proclaims and we do see, here, that everything evil has manifested itself through Babylon and the nations of the world have embraced it. We see that the merchants have become rich because of her and merchants do not wax rich without the people participating. All of the earth has bought into mystery Babylon.

    Revelation 18:4:
    And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
    Revelation 18:5:
    For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
    Revelation 18:6:
    Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
    Revelation 18:7:
    How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
    Revelation 18:8:
    Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

    A voice from heaven admonishes the people of God, lest they partake of her plagues. MHCC

    When we look at these passages it must always be remembered that John is recording events that will occur in the natural realm as they are affected by the Spiritual realm. John is seeing one angel speak when an unseen voice interjects. This is God calling all that will hear Him, He states ¨my people,¨ proving, to my satisfaction that it is Father God. In verse 5 we see that God has not been slumbering, no, God knows everything.

    Verse 6 requires prayer and care when considering the meaning of what is said. In verse 4 God is speaking to His people and the Rapture has already taken place, indicating that, without the presence of the Holy Spirit Some have Spiritually awakened and are seeking to follow God. And so it is that God say, ¨reward her even as she has rewarded you.¨ Remember that we learn that evil devils have filled Babylon with evil.

    Many have misused Matt. 7:1 by drawing it out of context to shut the mouth of the Christian to keep themselves from being judged righteously but the context makes a lie of that as does this passage where the future Christ Follower is called upon to judge evil. In verse 7 they are even called to rise up in rebellion, it appears to me, to prepare mystery Babylon for the soon falling righteous judgment of God, described in verse 8.

    Revelation 18:9:
    And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
    Revelation 18:10:
    Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
    Revelation 18:11:
    And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
    Revelation 18:12:
    The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
    Revelation 18:13:
    And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
    Revelation 18:14:
    And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
    Revelation 18:15:
    The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
    Revelation 18:16:
    And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
    Revelation 18:17:
    For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
    Revelation 18:18:
    And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
    Revelation 18:19:
    And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

    The lamentations over her. MHCC

    What we have here is a list that needs close scrutiny for if we are careful to consider, a good deal of what we enjoy partaking in today is going to be lost here. In verse 13 we learn that even the souls of men have been traded or sold. And I will tell you that such is being done right now! In my years of work I worked with Christians, Lost Men and men that had sold their souls to Satan for certain kinds of success. One such young man was so indwelt, or possessed, that he just reeked of evil. He laughed at all the wrong things, lied, stole, swindled and did all manor of evil... he was solod out to mystery Babylon, Satan!

    When God judges this world there will be a great change and I do not see many that will be willing to live without their ¨comforts¨ and live a simple but fulfilling life. No, it is very much as the Matthew Henry out line suggests, they will sorrow deeply.

    Revelation 18:20:
    Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
    Revelation 18:21:
    And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
    Revelation 18:22
    And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
    Revelation 18:23:
    And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
    Revelation 18:24:
    And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

    The church called upon to rejoice in her utter ruin. MHCC

    This is, among men, a very controversial passage. My understanding, perhaps wrong, is that all the Christ Following Converts have been beheaded. In verse 21 we see a stone like a great millstone cast into the sea and in 22 we see the sound of the millstone, industry, will be heard no more. Then, in verse 23, it looks to me like like the Light and Power companies also fail. When we read the Genesis, the beginning, account, we were an agrarian people that had very, very little industry. It is my perception that the Earth will, under the reign of Jesus, by of that nature once more. We worship our autos, electric drills, TVs and even the computers, like the one I type this message on but I tell you we will have no need of the Internet then.
     
  2. OldRegular

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    Revelation 17:5, 6 KJV
    5. And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
    6. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.


    Babylon and the MOTHER OF HARLOTS are one and I believe represent the apostate church. Herman Hoeksema in Behold He Cometh, page566, writes of the apostate church as follows:


    .... this woman is a harlot, and as such representative not of the true but of the apostate church. A harlot in Scripture is a married woman who has forsaken her rightful husband, has become unfaithful, and whores after other men, who are strangers. And so is the false, or the apostate church. Committing spiritual fornication, she bears the name of church. She stands outwardly in covenant relation to the God of salvation. She enjoys all the spiritual blessings of that relation to God. But essentially she has broken the pledge of faith and truth and separated herself from the covenant God, in order to ally herself with the powers of the world and the kingdom of antichrist. She has all the outward appearance of the church, with ministry and office bearers, with the outward signs of the Word and the sacraments. She is busy in all kinds of nominally Christian work, and has perhaps more organizations than any other local church on earth. But she denies the truth, forsakes her God and Saviour, tramples under foot the blood of the new covenant. In a word, Babylon, as the harlot woman, is the apostate church.
     
  3. th1bill

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    The first red flag any Holy Spirit filled follower of God sees in any class or book on future prophecy is a dogmatic stance! Every man before Jesus and every man since has been, is and will be finite beings. God, all three persons, is infinite. It is impossible for the finite to know or to define the infinite body, mind, soul or thoughts!

    If you choose to follow a man, by any name, pedigree or diploma, your choice ut as for me and my family, we follow God.
     
  4. OldRegular

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    What is your point?

    You lost me. What is your point?
     
  5. Iconoclast

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    Some see Babylon as apostate Israel....which was done away....

    The true Israel of God is now in view...



     
  6. beameup

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    Mesopotamia is the "cradle of civilization". "Mesopotamia" is referred to as Babylon,
    the Plain of Shinar, Akkadia, Chaldea, between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers, or modern day Iraq.

    And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
    And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Akkad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.
    - Gen 10:8 & 10

    So Nimrod founded the first empire based in Bab-el (Babylon).
    It could be said that Nimrod was the first DICTATOR and
    that he ruled the first EMPIRE and was the founder of
    URBAN CIVILIZATION.

    Abraham was called-out of this URBAN environment - called out
    of the city of UR in Chaldea ("Babylon") - and he then moved
    into a pastoral life in the Promised Land.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual,
    but as unto ego-centric, even as unto babies in Christ.
    - 1 Cor 3:1
     
    #6 beameup, Jan 8, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2012
  7. th1bill

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    The two witnesses are the Bible, the Old and New Testaments. Pg. 374

    I trust I need not go through a book I disaprove of to show more? This is not a possibility he suggested, with him it is fact and that is impossible for him to know. (red flagt)
     
  8. OldRegular

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    You lost me again. This thread is not about the two witnesses!
     
  9. th1bill

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    Would you care to expand that thought?
     
  10. th1bill

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    All of this could be interesting in a thread about the subject so, tell me, other than acting in an un-Christ-like manner and trying to hijack this thread... what has this to do with prophecy?
     
  11. agedman

    agedman
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    What is mhcc?

    What has that got to do with what is posted?
     
  12. OldRegular

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    Good luck, agedman: on getting an answer that is.
     
  13. agedman

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    So far, I have seen it as:

    Mt. Hood Community College
    Maryland Health Care Commission
    Maryland Heights Chamber of Commerce
    Michigan Hispanic Chamber of Commerce
    Military Healthcare Convention and Conference
    Melrose Highlands Congregational Church
    Manufactured Housing Consensus Committee
     
  14. beameup

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    Babylon, Babylon, Babylon, Babylon,...
    The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; 1 Peter 5:13
     
    #14 beameup, Jan 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2012
  15. th1bill

    th1bill
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    Mathew Henry Concise Commentary. Any Pastor or well studied Christian should know that, I think.
     
  16. th1bill

    th1bill
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    Regardless of the silly lack of relavence he is still a very sought after commentator on scripture so go ahead, be silly and irreverent.
     
  17. OldRegular

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    Now that you are active again how about explaining your response to my initial post my as I suggested above.

    You apparently use MHCC. Well I have MHCC, Matthew Henry's Complete Commentary but I have not been rude or arrogant to you.

    I gave you my understanding of the identity of Babylon, the Harlot, as being the apostate church and then quoted a view of the apostate church from a commentary. It appears that you are accusing me of following some man because I presented his opinion? If so I must say that is a very pathetic and insulting response.

    So please correct me if I misunderstand your response.
     
    #17 OldRegular, Jan 9, 2012
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  18. th1bill

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    Insult intended, no, taken that way, so it seems. Every one of us stands on the sholdiers of those that have gone before us, myself included. That being said, I don´t quote without looking at the scripture carefully. I can´t see that you went back to the scripture and prayerfully meditated.

    The Holy Spirit will teach each and every one of us what we need, when we need it. These teaching will often be different but will always compliment each other and thus, never disagree.

    My goal is never to insult but rather to cause folks to do a Spiritual Inventory.
     
  19. beameup

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    Behold, I shew you a mystery;
    We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    1 Cor 15:51

    There are "mysteries" which remain "mysteries";
    and then there are "mysteries" (like "mystery Babylon")
    which can be clearly understood, and no longer remain a "mystery". :wavey:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness,
    goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

    Let us not be desirous of vain glory
    [ego-centric] , provoking one another,
    envying one another.
    - Gal 5:22,26
     
    #19 beameup, Jan 10, 2012
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  20. OldRegular

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    There are two possible reasons for the above remark. Both may be true.

    1. You do not agree with my understanding of Babylon, the Harlot, therefore, I did not meditate or seek the aid of the Holy Spirit.:saint::saint:

    2. Texas is a long way from South Carolina and you can't see that far!:laugh::laugh:
     

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