Revelation 21:18-19

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by ccrobinson, Apr 10, 2008.

  1. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here's Revelation 21:18-19

    Does this apply to the book of Revelation, or to the entire Bible?

    It seems to me that when John wrote it, he didn't know there was going to be a Bible with 66 books in it, thus, what he wrote would apply to Revelation only. However, God knew there would be 66 books, thus, what's written in verses 18 and 19 applies to the entire Bible, not just Revelation. On the other hand, "words of the prophecy" and "words of the book of this prophecy" seem to imply that it's talking about Revelation only.

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. Rubato 1

    Rubato 1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    0
    It applies to John's revelation. Other, similar verses apply to the whole Bible.
    (I can't look them up right now, my BibleGateway is down--I'll cite the references later...)
     
  3. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,872
    Likes Received:
    3
    There are no verses in scripture that refer to a 'Bible' since the Bible didn't yet exist. I think we, as Christians, lose credibility with the lost world when we misapply scripture (including making anachronistic applications).
     
  4. Rubato 1

    Rubato 1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you. But I said 'apply' to the whole Bible, not 'refer' to the Bible. I am perfectly aware of the difference and chose my words carefully.

    However, you are more thatn correct when you observe that we lose credibility through sloppy scholarship. That is a discussion that merits its own thread. One in which we can name names...:D
     
  5. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Revelation 21:18-19
    18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
    19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


    I think he's referring to the book of Revalation.
     
  6. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    In application, it is referring to Revelation. In practicality, it can refer to the whole Bible message. Grace through faith + nothing = salvation. Add to that equation, and you are removing yourself from the book of life.
     
    #6 webdog, Apr 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2008
  7. Linda64

    Linda64
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,051
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm surprised that nobody caught the mistake in the title of this thread---the chapter of Revelation is incorrect:

    Revelation 21:18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

    Revelation 21:19
    And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

    It should be Revelation 22:18-19:

    Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

    Revelation 22:19
    And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

    And that's all I have for now.
     
  8. Rubato 1

    Rubato 1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    0
    :laugh::laugh:
    Good catch, Linda. I even looked up the verses to double check!
     
  9. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually, it's the Revalation of Jesus Christ to John.


    Pick, pick, pick........:laugh:
     
  10. Rubato 1

    Rubato 1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amy G,
    That's why I didn't capitalize 'revelation'...:laugh:
     
  11. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is what I believe.
     
  12. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    John was the youngest of all the apostles, and outlived them all. He addresses the elect lady of 2John as himself being "the elder" or the aged. One of the purposes of the Gospel of John was to give supplemental information to the synoptic gospels which had already been written and which John had already been in possession of and read. He knew what they had written. He added to their information.
    Most of the NT was written between 50 and 70 A.D., but John's works were written between 90 and 98 A.D., the Book of Revelation being the last book to be written.
    Thus in application I believe that John had the entire Bible in mind when he wrote those verses. His book was the last book to be written. He was the last Apostle living and knew it. Even the Apostle Paul had been beheaded by this time. With the completion of his book the canon of Scripture would be closed. The verses, although in immediate context would refer to the Book of Revelation, in application would refer to the entire Bible.
     
  13. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have no objection to your historical outline above, but I don't believe John's statement refers to the entire canon.

    Here's why:

    1. John says "the words of the prophecy of this book." This expression never used of all of Scripture.

    2. It is most nature to read "the words of the prophecy of this books" as the Apocalypse, since it is prophetic by nature, which is not true of the canon.

    3. Reference to the "tree of life and in the holy city" were just mentioned in chp 22, manking the Apocalypse "the prophecy of this book."
     
  14. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Unless the canon was compiled and completed when John wrote Revelation, there was no "book" that was finished. He had to mean the one he was writing (Revelation).

    JMO.
     
  15. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the responses. And thanks for catching my mistake. My Bible program was maximized and chapter 21 was in the title bar, so I just put down chapter 21 without thinking.
     

Share This Page

Loading...