Revelation 4:1 - Apostle John "Raptured"

I also believe that the Bible teaches a pre trib rapture, but was just addressing the prior posting that seemed to infer that darby brought to church Dispy "out of the blue!"

 

Sorry JF, not trying to be disagreeable...lol.

The statement...

...just seemed to echo what many post-trib believers use as one of their arguments against a pre-trib rapture.

Darby may have been famous for this teaching, but I think you will agree that it originated in the first century beginning with Paul, as you seem to affirm here.

Sorry for the confusion,

God bless.

 

probably better way for me to have said it was that darby was the one credited for discovering that in the Bible, though was in there by Apostle paul already!

 

I do not know that Rev 20 is chronological to the previous chapters but that it establishes the day of the Lord as being a thousand years. John was in spirit in the Lord's day and told to write, which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Thou has seen being the churches. up to the resurrection of afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
the things which are being on the day of the Lord. One thousand years.
the things which shall be after the day of the Lord Chapters 21-22

Do you think maybe the vial judgments could be related to ruling with a rod of iron? It has been a while since I have given much thought to this. Ruling in the concept of, Zech 14:16-18

 

Just goes to show that the Holy Spirit is having some success in bringing people to the truth!

 

agreed, as we are not appointed by god to suffer His wrath, so will be long gone before His judgement day falls!

 

Please read and understand the entire post before jumping the gun. I have emphasized the statement for your edification!

 

You have totally ignored the statement:

 

The True Church will always undergo tribulation.

John 15:18
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

 

Some people argue that Darby's dispensationalism was the outcome of a supposed special revelation to one Margaret MacDonald of Port Glasgow, Scotland. Her revelation was first published in Robert Norton's Memoirs of James & George Macdonald, of Port Glasgow (1840), pp. 171-176. Norton published it again in The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets; In the Catholic Apostolic Church (1861), pp. 15-18.

I would note that

Seventh Day Adventism
Christian Science
Mormonism

are all the result of special revelation?????????

Jehovah's Witnesses are big on the millennium but apparently Taze Russell did not have a vision! Perhaps he just expanded on Darby!

 

I do not believe Paul taught a pre-trib rapture.

Paul in the area of Galatia Acts 14:19-22 And there came thither [certain] Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew [him] out of the city, supposing he had been dead. Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe. And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and [to] Iconium, and Antioch, Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

I believe I have shown from scripture that Jesus the Christ by the firstfruits of resurrection became the foundation of the church he is building and that his church will be resurrected into (to inherit) the kingdom of God. In A20:25 Paul states, "And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more."

Paul preached the gospel of the kingdom of God everywhere he went and the importance of the death and resurrection of Jesus the Christ relative to our inheriting that kingdom.

Acts 17 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Opening and alleging, that (the) Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is (the) Christ. The anointed one. Verse
7 Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, Jesus.

Paul was preaching the kingdom of God by resurrection from the dead.


Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation (even unto death) enter into the kingdom of God.

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father;

 

There is no Scripture that teaches this doctrine; rather it is the invention of man.

 

Just shows what trouble you get into when you start inventing Scripture!

 

If Paul taught it there should be a Scripture reference. Could you provide it!

 

I agree with you OR. From Jesus I would say the opposite was taught.

And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:

I would also say that baptism included death.

 

How do we resolve the obvious conflict between the view that all believers are not on earth during the Tribulation, and Revelation 7?

Here John describes people from many nations and races. Then he gets a question:

These are believers, mostly Gentiles, who were in the Tribulation, died (more likely killed), and are now in heaven.

If the "Church" is raptured out, who are these Gentile believers who were in the Tribulation?

 

Another nonsensical belief of dispensationalism. More people [Gentiles] are to be saved during 7 years by "whoever" than during the thousands of years the Gospel is preached by the Church. Just another indication that some dispensationalists think the Church is a failure. Very sad!!!

And just who are these "whoever" who preach the Gospel and how do they get saved if there are no Christians and the Holy Spirit is removed prior to the Great Tribulation. And which Gospel is preached beameup, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Gospel of Paul, or the everlasting Gospel? If they are Gentiles it must be the Gospel of Paul!

Hyper-dispensationalism really gets ridiculous doesn't it!