Revelation 4:11

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Jesus is Lord, Aug 17, 2003.

  1. Jesus is Lord

    Jesus is Lord
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can anyone help me with this? I found the word "pleasure" only in the KJV and in the NLT. Is there manuscript evidence for this or is it just one way to translate this verse? All other translations say something like: "by (or because of) your will they were created".
     
  2. BrianT

    BrianT
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    The word translated "pleasure" in the KJV appears 64 times in the NT, and the vast majority of the time (62 times) it is translated "will". The other instance is translated "desires" (Eph 2:3).

    It seems (IMHO) that "will" is the more clearer meaning here, but that "pleasure" isn't that far off the mark because I don't think God created things for his displeasurment. [​IMG] It is very curious why the KJV translators didn't go with the more common and consistent "will" here though.
     
  3. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,147
    Likes Received:
    322
    Psalm 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

    Psalm 135:6 Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.
     
  4. Ben W

    Ben W
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,868
    Likes Received:
    0
    God's Will, is His Pleasure.
     
  5. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes. It is a "Lord" thing [​IMG]
     
  6. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    tsk tsk tsk, who AUTHORIZED the changing of God's Word thElema into "pleasure"? may all those who whine about the MVs' rendering of hAIMA come outta the woodwork now! :D
     
  7. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Just another evidence that there are a number of CHOICES in English for specific Greek words.

    That one group in 1611 opted for "pleasure" (which understood THEN as "will" or "desire") or another group in 1972 chose "will" (because modern man does not see "pleasure" the same way) is just proof that various translations are VALID.

    Different is not evil. Just different. [​IMG]
     
  8. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,147
    Likes Received:
    322
    And oftentimes better.

    HankD
     
  9. timothy 1769

    timothy 1769
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,323
    Likes Received:
    0
    yes, pleasure can mean

    4. What the will dictates or prefers; will; choice; purpose; intention; command; as, use your pleasure. (webster 1828)

    hebrews 12
    9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
     

Share This Page

Loading...