Revelation future?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Grasshopper, Apr 16, 2003.

  1. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper
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    Jesus said:
    John 14:2

    2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

    Jesus says He is preparing a place for us. But for how long? Revelation 21 says:

    Revelation 21:1
    1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

    Is this the same Heaven where our mansions are/were? Are the Mansions that are being prepared
    going to be destroyed?

    Comments?
     
  2. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper
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    No Comments?
     
  3. Preacher Nathan Knight

    Preacher Nathan Knight
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    That is a good question, but I do not have a good answer. I guess there are some things that we will never know until we get to glory.
     
  4. RaptureReady

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    Well, using my common sense. I don't believe that Jesus would give us a mansion and then take it away. Don't make no sense.
     
  5. KenH

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    The heaven and earth that pass away is this present physical universe. The heaven where our mansions are is in the heaven where God resides. Remember that Paul talked about going to the third heaven. The first heaven is our atmosphere, the second heaven is outer space, and the third heaven is where God resides.
     
  6. Tim

    Tim
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    This whole idea of "mansions" in heaven is based on a modern misunderstanding, rather than on the original idea in John 14.

    First the word "mansion" simply means "abiding place". It is the same word used in John 14:23, where Jesus says that He and the Father will make their "abode" with those who love Christ.

    So going back to John 14:2, the meaning is "in my Father's house are many abiding places". One house-with many places to live in.

    The significance of this is shown in a Jewish custom associated with marriage. When the Son had finished building a room onto his father's house, he would then be ready to go get his bride so she could become a part of the extended family.

    The emphasis is on our being joined to the family of God, living in His presence--married to His Son--Jesus Christ.

    The modern idea of individualized fancy mansions in heaven has no basis in Scripture! And really, doesn't it seem just a bit materialistic anyway? Remember the line from that old favorite song, "I want a gold one that's silver-lined"?
    Can't we have a little spiritual focus instead? Isn't it far better to live in God's house with Him? Indeed that was Jesus' promise. I don't think we'll be disappointed.

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  7. Watchman

    Watchman
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    I am a bit disadvantaged here in that I have no Bible in front of me to give references to and I have to give Biblical references from memory. First, I recongnize there is great disagreement on this board about future events. At the end of Revelation there is described the Holy City, New Jerusalem, coming down from heaven as a bride adorned for her Husband. Looking at the demensions of the city, it is a cube about 1500 miles on each side.
    Jesus was very specific thet, "In my Father's house there are many mansions (dwelling places), if it were not so I would tell you" therefore, rest assured that there are many mansions and (IMHO) this city is where they are contained.
    Charles
     
  8. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Bid my wife a fond farewell in the Lord after 30 wonderful years of marriage... She went home to be with Jesus!... Does it really matter if there are manions or not?... In my Bible it says we shall be satisfied... What more do we need?... Satisfaction guaranteed [​IMG] ... Brother Glen [​IMG] & [​IMG] Sister Charlotte [​IMG]
     
  9. Dr. Bob

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    Heaven is the home of God. The New Jerusalem is the home Jesus is preparing for me. I will be in heaven (Rev 4-5) worshiping God, but my abode will be the New Jerusalem.

    And when He offers his temporal kingdom to the Father as an eternal kingdom (so much for the amillenial position) we will have a new earth on which to dwell as well.
     
  10. Daniel David

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    Exactly. I want to see just one passage that says we will spend forever in heaven.

    It ain't there, Isa tellya.

    This idea started with Augustine. I better stop. Every time I consider the excellent interpretives skills of amills and postmills and those who are preterist, I nearly break a rib. [​IMG]
     
  11. KenH

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    I just want to be where Jesus is. Period. He'll handle the location. [​IMG]
     
  12. Tim

    Tim
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    Daniel David

    Believe it or not, we amils aren't disciples of Augustine any more than the Dispies are disciples of Scofield and Darby.

    We come to different conclusions about these issues too.

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  13. Grasshopper

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    Old Israel's covenant was about to pass away, II Corinthians 3:10ff; Hebrews 8:13; 12:25ff. The New Covenant of Christ was being given, Ephesians 3:3ff; Hebrews 2:1ff. Since the giving of Covenant created "heaven and earth" the New Heaven and Earth of Christ would not be completed until the New Covenant was completely revealed. It therefore follows that if the New Heavens and Earth of Christ has not arrived then Christ's New Covenant has not yet been fully revealed. If Christ's New Covenant has been fully revealed then the new heavens and new earth have fully come. Consider this carefully in light of II Peter 3 and Revelation 21-22, passages written as the process of revealing the New Covenant was yet incomplete.

    In Isaiah 51:5-6 God predicted the "heaven and earth" would vanish. This is the same "heaven and earth" he had established at Sinai. This is not a prediction of the passing of literal heaven and earth--it is a prediction of the passing of the Old World of Israel so that the New Covenant World of Messiah would be established. We believe this heaven and earth that Isaiah said would perish is the same heaven and earth Jesus said must pass before the Old Law would pass.

    Isaiah 65-66 also predicted the passing of "heaven and earth" but as with the other prophecies noted above it does not refer to the passing of physical creation. In chapter 65 God predicted that Israel would fill the measure of her sin, vs. 7; he would destroy them, vs. 8-15; create a new people with a new name, vs. 15-16; create a new heaven and earth with a new Jerusalem, vs. 17-19. The creation of the new heavens and earth would follow the destruction of the Jews after they had filled the measure of their sins and been destroyed at the coming of the Lord in fire with his angels, Isaiah 66:15ff. The new creation of Isaiah 66 is depicted as a time of evangelism and Jew and Gentile being brought together under the banner of God, vss 19ff.

    Now Isaiah 65 said the new creation would come when Israel had filled the measure of her sin and was destroyed. Do we have any clue as to when this was to happen?

    In Matthew 23:31-39 Jesus said Israel would fill up the measure of her sins in his generation. In chapter 24 he predicted the passing of Israel's heaven and earth at his coming, vs. 29-36. Now notice:

    1.) Isaiah said Israel's old heaven and earth would not be destroyed until Israel had filled her sin;

    2.) The new heaven and earth would not come until Israel's old heaven and earth was destroyed;

    3.) Jesus said Israel would fill up the measure of her sin and be destroyed at his coming in his generation;

    4.) Therefore, Israel's "heaven and earth" was destroyed at Jesus' coming against Israel, when the measure of her sin was full, in that generation.

    In Matthew 24 Jesus predicted the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem. This Temple was the very center of the Jewish world. This is where the sacrifices for sin were offered by the genealogically confirmed Levitical priests. For Jesus to predict the utter desolation of this temple was the same as saying their world was about to come crashing down around their ears!

    In graphic detail Jesus chronicled the events to occur before that disaster and the signs indicating its imminence, vss. 14-15. In highly apocalyptic, (symbolic) language he described the fall itself:

    "The sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heaven shall be shaken, and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of the sky with power and great glory".

    In verses 32-33 Jesus said that by heeding the signs they could know his coming was at hand. In verse 34 he assured them that generation would not pass away before all those things happened. In verse 35 Jesus reassured them that what he had said was true. He said "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my word shall never pass away".

    This verse is Jesus' way of contrasting the Old World of Israel that was to perish, and his New World that would remain. That Old World would surely perish as he had just said — but his World will never pass.

    In verse 36 Jesus gave a final warning about knowing the time of those events. Although he informed them how to know when the event was imminent and reassured them that it would definitely happen in that generation, he tells them they cannot know the precise day and hour. They must therefore be watchful, verse 42ff.

    Can you see the relationship of Jesus' prediction of the passing of the "heaven and earth" in Matthew 24 with his statement in chapter 5:17-18? In chapter 24 he said their world, symbolized by the temple and city, was to pass away; and he expressed it in the imagery of the passing of heaven and earth. In chapter 5 he had already said the "heaven and earth" had to pass before the Law could pass. We shall see below the perfect correspondence with this idea and Jesus' statement that all of the Old Covenant had to be fulfilled for the Law to pass.

    Hebrews 12:25-28 is another text that speaks of the passing of the Old Covenant World under the imagery of the passing of heaven and earth.

    The writer alludes to the giving of the Law at Sinai, (remember Isaiah 51), as the shaking of earth. He says God promised to shake not only earth, but heaven also. This shaking signified removing them; therefore God was promising to remove heaven and earth. Why? So that something that could not be removed would remain. Now notice: in verse 28 he says they were at that time receiving, (they had not already completely received it), a kingdom "that cannot be shaken". If they were receiving an unshakable kingdom, this of necessity means the "heaven and earth" was being removed. (Remember Jesus' words in Matthew 24:35 about the "heaven and earth" passing but his word not passing? Jesus' world then is unshakable. Hebrews is discussing the shaking of one world and receiving of another unshakable kingdom. See the comparison?)

    Physical heaven and earth was not being removed; but Hebrews was written just a few years before the fall of Jerusalem and the Temple. Further, the Gospel had been preached for some time declaring the superiority of Christ and the imminent demise of the Old World. The Old World of Israel was on the verge of destruction; the New World was being delivered. Thus, we have another example of the Bible speaking of the passing of heaven and earth when it means the passing of the Old World of Israel.
     
  14. RaptureReady

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    To those who believe that they will be in a "abiding place," or "dwelling place," let me say that whenever you want to come on over to my MANSION, the door will always be open.
     
  15. Tim

    Tim
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    Homebound,

    O.K., but if you start feeling lonely in your stately mansion--you can come over---we'll be over at Jesus' place.

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  16. DeafPosttrib

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    Grasshopper,

    Excuse me, are you a preterist? You believe old heaven and old earth passed away in year 70 A.D.?

    Where is Jesus right now?
     
  17. Preacher Nathan Knight

    Preacher Nathan Knight
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    I believe exactly what the verse says, "In my Father's house are many mansions" We will have our mansions and be with Jesus at the same time. Notice that it says the mansions are in the Father's house.
     

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