Revised Thoughts On The HCSB

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Rippon, Feb 19, 2015.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,403
    Likes Received:
    328
    I made a post recently listing my favorite translations. I started off with the NIV, NLT, MLB, REB, Norlie, Weymouth, 20th Century NT, Lattimore, Phillips and NET Bible. I revisted the post and realized that I had not even mentioned the HCSB. In times past I would have listed it as my second favorite version. But it has fallen out of favor with me to some degree. It is still a decent translation and better than a number of others in my estimation.

    I still think it bears some relationship with the NIV. Both are mediating versions. Both occupy the same ground in their translational method. But the more I have thought about it, the more I have come to the conclusion that the NIV and NET Bible share a greater affinity.

    There have been several threads on the HCSB started by yours truly. Here I am adding to the collection. I have compared it with other translations, such as the TNIV and ESV. There have been some blunders which I have itemized back as far as 2007 or so. It is interesting that though some here have thought that I was being a knit picker --many of those blunders have been removed in the latest edition. There have been some good revisions with the HCSB in recent years.

    For example a snip from Ephesians 2:2 used to be rendered as "the ruler of the atmospheric domain." Now it reads "the ruler who exercises authority over the lower heavens." The newer rendering is an improvement --though it falls short IMO.

    More to come...
     
    #1 Rippon, Feb 19, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2015
  2. McCree79

    McCree79
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2015
    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes Received:
    33
    I look forward to hearing your further thoughts. I like the HCSB. I carry a personal evangelism bible in the HCSB. The verses I use are clear, easy for me to recite out load and seems to be well understood by the listener. I study, most of the time, from the ESV. But there has been times, I have stumbled reading it out loud. The follow is not as natural for me to read out loud as HCSB. Granted I have not read a single full book from the HCSB. I just use it for select verses.
     
  3. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,403
    Likes Received:
    328
    Here are some snippet samples from the current HCSB. These are given without references. In the near future I will give references for other examples.

    How can this guy save us?
    You're crazy!
    It's a scorcher!
    pseudo-intellectual
    went into a visionary state
    examined by scourge
    girded the ship [The only translation to use 'gird'. Even the KJV uses "undergirded."]
    He is a prototype.
    Do not be mismatched with unbelievers. [The oxen metaphor is lost here.]
    a curse be on him [Kind of an old expression for a modern version to use.]
    access to a visionary realm
    He doesn't hold on to the head [Why not use "onto"?]
    worthy of an ample honorarium
    capture idle women [That sends a wrong message.]
    the final realization of your hope
    I will greatly multiply you
    he was still within his ancestor [That's awkward.]
    in festive gathering [A step above the ESV's "festal gathering".]
    the fleshly ream
    a faith of equal privilege
    be multipled to you
    You have decided these things [Most translations have "judged" these things.]
    Don't stifle the Spirit [It has a certain ring to it, but...]
    publicizing that He Himself is God
     
    #3 Rippon, Feb 19, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2015
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,001
    Likes Received:
    46
    It still seems to be a more formal version though overall then the 2011 Niv, correct?
     
  5. robustheologian

    robustheologian
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    119
    To me it is...even though the NIV2011 is pretty accurate for a dynamic translation.
     
  6. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,403
    Likes Received:
    328
    Is. 31:9
    HCSB : His rock will pass away
    2011 : Their stronghold will fall

    Is. 63:5
    HCSB : My wrath assisted me
    2011 : My own wrath sustained me

    2 Pe. 3:4
    HCSB : Where is the promise of His coming?
    2011 : Where is this 'coming' he promised?

    Ro. 13:13
    HCSB : walk properly
    NASB : behave properly
    ["Walk properly" sounds like a parental rebuke for walking in a weird way."]

    2 Thess. 3:6
    HCSB : walks irresponsibly
    NASB : leads an unruly life

    Heb. 3:14
    HCSB : For we have become companions of the Messiah if we hold firmly until the end the reality that we had at the start.
    2011 : We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.
     
    #6 Rippon, Feb 19, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2015
  7. robustheologian

    robustheologian
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    119
    This is very helpful. Thanks.
     
  8. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,403
    Likes Received:
    328
    In my opinion the current HCSB in comparison with the current NIV stacks up like this:

    H is superior to the NIV about 10% of the time.
    H is just as good as the NIV 45% of the time.
    H is not as good as the NIV 45% of the time.

    Now don't get a wrong impression. When I say that the HCSB is not as good as the NIV 45% of the time I mean this: It doesn't fail. In many ways it is superior to that of the ESV and NKJV for example. It's just that in my opinion it's renderings fall short of the renderings of the NIV about 45% of the time.

    However, this is the good news: The HCSB has improved. A lot of the poor renderings I pointed out eight years ago have been revised.

    The following is how I think the HCSB did in comparision to the TNIV 8 years ago :

    The older HCSB was better than the TNIV 5% of the time.
    The older HCSB was just as good as the TNIV 40% of the time.
    The older HCSB was not as good as the TNIV about 55% of the time.

    THe HCSB has a history of clunkers. And it swings from one extreme to the other. It uses ultra colloquial expressions a good deal. Then, it lurches over to super-stiff unnatural language the rest of the time. It has to find a stable, middle of the road style.

    It doesn't want the identity of being a NIV wannabe. And it doesn't want to be known as NASB Jr. It's still young and will have to find its way.
     
  9. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,403
    Likes Received:
    328
    Here are some problem snips from the book of Jeremiah as rendered by the HCSB.

    13:7 : my innermost being will weep in secret
    ["I will weep in secret" is clearer.]

    13:4 (But also see 7,10,11)
    Take the underwear
    [Hmm...]

    16:7 : A cup of consolation won't be given
    [The older versions have this.]

    17:11 : In the middle of his days
    [Can't it be expressed more naturally?]

    19:6 : take note!
    [Okay, got my writing pad ready.]

    19:13 : whole heavenly host
    [It is in reference to all the stars. But it's confusing, folks might think it is speaking of all the angels.]

    22:20 : all your lovers
    [It means allies.]

    33:20 : regular time
    [That is certainly a unique reading. But it means the proper, or appointed time.]

    45:5 : every living creature
    [But it's referencing only all of humanity --not animals, fish etc. as well.]

    48:9 : without inhabitant
    [Old-fashioned phraseology.]

    49:2 : dispossess their dispossessors
    [It mimics the ESV here]

    49:19 : the perennially watered grazing land
    [A little too wordy here.]

    50:7 : their righteous grazing land
    [A rather singular rendering.]
     
  10. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,403
    Likes Received:
    328
    The next examples are taken from the book of Isaiah.

    7:3 : Fuller's Field
    [This reading is not understandable to the average person.]

    10:13 : I subjugated the inhabitants
    [It needs to be said more simply.]

    32:10 : the vintage will fail
    [That needs to be restated.]

    40:23 : makes the judges of the earth to be irrational
    [Certainly a novel reading.]

    55:10 : making it germinate and sprout
    [Wouldn't it be better to say "bud and sprout" or "bud and flourish"?]

    61:3 : splendid clothes
    [Huh? Most versions have :"garments of praise"]
     
  11. McCree79

    McCree79
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2015
    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes Received:
    33
    Does the HCSB uses the word "awesome" in the story of Samson's birth like the NIV2011? I was reading to my son tonight. When Samson's mother described God's angel as "awesome" I started laughing. I wasn't expecting that. :)
     
    #11 McCree79, Feb 20, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2015
  12. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,403
    Likes Received:
    328
    "What an awesome place this is!" (Gen. 28:17 HCSB)
    "How awesome is this place!" (NASB and NKJV)

    We do have to adjust the wording because of the "Dude" culture. Awe-inspiring or some other alternative should be substituted.
     
    #12 Rippon, Feb 20, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2015
  13. robustheologian

    robustheologian
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    119
    I somewhat admire the HCSB's approach to being contemporary...though at times it feels weird when it's in a sacred text.
     
  14. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,403
    Likes Received:
    328
    I looked the renderings of various versions on the Biblehub. Most translations used "awesome" in Genesis 28:17
    KJV and its copycats : dreadful
    YLT : fearful
    ISV : scary

    In Judges 13:6 most had "very awesome"
    HCSB : awe-inspiring
    GWT : very frighening

    Others had : terrifying, very aweful, very fearful, very terrible.

    So we don't want to go back and we don't want to stay static. We have to move ahead because of the influence of pop culture. But instead of the common accusations about capitulating to it --we alter our translations because we don't want what is sacred to be seen as common.

    I love the hymn How Sweet And Awesome Is This Place by Isaac Watts. He originally had "aweful" in the lyrics. Subsequent generations changed it because the word "aweful" was associated with bad connotations. It was right to change aweful to awesome. In English translations we have to adjust the wording as well.
     
  15. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,403
    Likes Received:
    328
    I agree. But you should see what that trajectory leads to with productions like The Message, for instance.
     
  16. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,403
    Likes Received:
    328
    Pondering the title of this thread gave me an idea. With a new complete, full-scale revision it could be called the RHCSB. How's that for alphabet soup?

    Why did they ever decide to put a C in the title anyway? Has any translation inserted "Christian" in its title? They could rename it HST = Holman Standard Translation. They need less letters. But the old and (sigh) still current title is HCSB. That's the name or brand that it's known as for better or worse. But I say the marketing arm (is there really one?) should attempt a name change along with a good revision.

    The NIV has the lion's share of the market (it really is international in scope). The NLT zoomed right up there to second place. The ESV is fighting for a top five spot along with the NKJV. And like it or not the CEB is neck-n-neck with the also-rans.

    Oops, I really did forget about the KJV. It still pulls rank.
     
  17. McCree79

    McCree79
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2015
    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes Received:
    33
    Here is the most recently available unit sales. NIV is still #1 in dollars. But NLT is the King of bible sales(units) now.

    1. New Living Translation
    2. New International Version
    3. King James Version
    4. New King James Version
    5. English Standard Version
    6. Common English Bible
    7. Holman Christian Standard Bible
    8. New American Standard Bible
    9. Reina Valera 1960
    10. New International Readers Version
     
  18. McCree79

    McCree79
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2015
    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes Received:
    33
    I am honestly surprised that the CEV out sales the HCSB. Also figured the Reina Valera would be higher. Then again.....I don't see many study bibles in Reina or anything that would make someone buy 2. Of course, maybe English speaking Americans are the only ones buying multiple bibles.
     
  19. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,403
    Likes Received:
    328
    It's not the CEV. It's the CEB, which stands for Common English Bible.

    The CEV is the Contemporary English Bible.
     
  20. McCree79

    McCree79
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2015
    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes Received:
    33
    Yes....it is. The B is right beside the V on the keyboard :)
    Little phone big thumb
     

Share This Page

Loading...