Featured Revised Thoughts On The HCSB

I've been using the CEB in my study some and I like it. Have the study bible which is well done considering the limitations of a study bible. It has taken some getting used to read The Human One instead of Son of Man.

 

This snippet is from Acts 12:15, and the Greek word translated "crazy" is G3105, mainomai, and appears about 5 times in the NT. It is most frequently translated as "out of mind" or mad. Crazy, insane, beside oneself, are also popular. In my limited search I did not find "looneytoon" or "half bubble off plume."

Consistent with the acknowledged need to avoid words whose meaning has been altered by "pop culture" such as crazy used as a positive attribute, and the need for a degree of decorum in our sacred text, I would suggest "irrational." See John 10:20, Acts 12:15, Acts 26:24, 25 and 1 Corinthians 14:23.

 

Lets look at another snippet from the HCSB, from Genesis 28:17. Here is the passage from the NASB:

The observation was that the connotation of "awesome" had been corrupted by pop culture, and so something like "awe-inspiring" would be an improvement.

But lets look at the parallel between verse 16, and 17. In verse 16, Jacob indicates at first he did not know the Lord was in this place, but then he came to realize it. Verse 17 seems to make the same point. At first Jacob was afraid or fearful, thinking the place was fearful, but then came realization, and he said No, this is the house of God, the gate of heaven. Thus awe-inspiring is not the idea at all, but rather a fearful or dreadful place due to a lack of realization.

 

Use of the word "soul" in various versions

American Standard Version 450
Authorized Version 432
New King James Version 321
New American Standard Version 276
English Standard Version 251
New Revised Standard Version 208
Lexham English Bible 188
New International Version (1984) 129
The Message 135
New International Version 90
International Standard Version 62
New Living Translation 61
New English Version 54
Holman Christian Standard Version 46
Common English Version 41
Good News Translation 35

 

Hi Deacon, interesting observation. Of the about 105 times G5590, psychē, appears in the NT, the HCSB renders it "soul about 15 times. Other HCSB translation choices include life(s) people, everybody, mind(s), heart, yourselves, myself, and human being. OTOH, the NASB renders it soul(s) about 51 times.

Part of the difficulty in consistent translation rests on the view of the soul as part of our human spirit, i.e. our core attitudes and attributes, or whether we are a three part being, spirit, soul and body.

 

G5590, psyche, is sometimes translated mind, but another Greek word is also translated "mind" so it may be something is being lost by translating two different words as one English word. If we stick with three meanings for the Greek word G5590, we get (1) life or life force, or that which makes us alive, (2) a living human being, and (3) our core attributes or attitudes.

Lets look at a few verses: Matthew 22:37, Acts 14:2, Philippians 1:27 and Hebrews 12:3.

Here Jesus is telling us we must love God as our only priority, i.e. with all our heart, and not half heartedly, leaving room to love the stuff of this world. Second, with all our soul meaning our core attitudes and attributes must be committed to God, and not spread among other lesser treasures, and (3) with all our mind, meaning all that we can wrap our mind's understanding around is totally devoted to God. We see and understand everything through the prism of our love of God. Focusing just on "soul" so as not to be sidetracked, it could be translated "with all our attributes and attitudes."

Acts 14:2 could be rendered "Yet the stubborn Jews stirred up and provoked the Gentile attributes and attitudes against the siblings."

Philippians 1:27 could be rendered, "Be citizens worthy of the Good News of Christ, whether I come and see you or remain absent, so that I may hear concerning you that you are standing firm in one attitude and spirit, striving together for faith in the Good News."

Hebrews 12:3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, so that you won’t grow weary in your attributes and attitudes and give up."

 

1) Did I say yet the stubborn Jew, or yet the stubborn Jews? Thus it refers to the stubborn ones among all the Jews.

2) Does scripture say the Jews were unbelieving due to ignorance of the gospel? Nope. Mistaken translations suggest that as a possibility. They refused to believe because they were stubborn and stiff-necked.

3) Your arguments from provincialism are well known. Just because a translation differs from the past does not mean it is weird.

4) Does the text say poisoned? No but embittered would also work so the Jews who refused to believe stirred up and embittered the Gentile's attitudes against the siblings.

 

Once again, we have no bible study, only a provincial argument repeated.
BTW, I did not say stubborn Jew, that falsehood has now been repeated twice by Mr. Rippon. Anyone who pays any attention to his characterization of the statements of others is naive.

 

Appreciate the findings Rippon. Phil 2:7 HCSB seems to be a redundant statement to me. We know man is external and not a spiritual form.

The other 2 verses, I actually like the HCSB better.... as far as easier to read. Though it may not be as accurate. "Ethnic identity" I think his much more descriptive then "his people". While we may know what " his people" means, I would think some could interpret that has his friends or the company he keeps..... Which in this case would be Jews. But with the story of Mordecai and Esther, I think it is important that the "ethnic" relationship be made clear in this story.

You last example is basically "stop fighting" vs. "Be still". I tell me 4 year old to "be still" all the time. Usually in stores. I mean this as in "don't move". God is saying be calm, not "don't move." I believe the NIV is more accurate and takes a more literal word-word translation on this verse, but I don't know if "be still" conveys the correct thought anymore. This is a hard verse to translate anyway. "Be still" came by converting the noun rapah to the verb marpe. I guess due to the other words around it....That part of translating is beyond me, so i trust trust the professionals....plus if you used rapah, a noun.....the verse doesn't make sense.

*I think when you tell someone to "stop fighting" it conveys "calm down", better than be still....in today's language anyway

 

Rather than compare the HCSB with another loose translation, why not compare it to the NASB, and point out where the HCSB mistranslates the actual text.

Such provincial arguments reflect persons who are able to learn but would rather stick provincially to past inaccurate translations.

I start study of a passage using the NASB because it best represents the Greek grammar of the Greek text. But no version is perfect and all can be improved. That is why they are updated.

Lets consider Philippians 2:7, "But emptied Himself, taking the form of a bondservant, being made in the likeness of men [V8] and being found in appearance as a man.

So we have three statements about Jesus, (1) He took the form of a bondservant (slave, servant etc) (2) being made in the likeness of men, and (3) being found in appearance as a man.

Now part of the difficulty seems to be that various versions insert the verse break (end of 7, beginning of 8) at different points. So the snippet from HCSB is at the end of verse 7, but the actual parallel section is at the beginning of verse 8 and reads "being found in appearance as a man.

 

Are you replying to me?
I just compared NIV to the HCSB, because that was the comparison I was replying to. While I stated I felt the NIV was more accurate(word for word), I felt that the HCSB was probably closer to intent based on currently language usage. I never claimed that the HCSB was a misinterpretation.

 

Hi McCree, no I was not addressing your post. I was addressing Mr. Rippon's post #35, and only the portion supposedly comparing the HCSB and NIV. Since the verse break is located after the "being made in human likeness in the NIV, whereas the HCSB included the third phrase in verse 7, the actual comparison was bogus. The two phrases should have been, "and when He had come as man in external form" with "and being found in appearance as a man."

My statement about mistranslation was a request that Mr. Rippon provide examples where the HCSB mistranslates a verse.

 

The HCSB follows suggestions offered by the UBS textual commentary.

Rob