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Featured Revised Thoughts On The HCSB

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Rippon, Feb 19, 2015.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Well, that has some merit.

    The NASB has : cease striving,
    NET Bible : Stop your striving
    YLT : Desist
     
  2. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    One of the things I love about the HCSB is that it isn't scared to take translation risks and looks at the actual Greek not tradition.
     
  3. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    The NIV is certainly not a loose translation. You have been warned before about making those kind of disparaging remarks. Desist.
    Boy, when you learn a new word you like to wear it out.
    Agreed.
    No, the the HCSB does not have the wording of "being found in the appearance as a man." It has "when He had come as a man in His external form."

    The NLTse also has the same break point as the HCSB here. It reads :"When he appeared in human form."

    The WEB Bible and ESV have, at the start of 2:8 (which corresponds with the ending of 2:7 in the HCSB) being found in human form.

    The single biggest error of translation in the HCSB is indeed :"When He had come as a man in His external form."
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Mr. Rippon likes to threaten other posters for expressing truth. I do not say anything explicit about the NIV, ESV and NLT because they are protected by forum leadership. I said do not compare the HCSB with loose translations, but with more word for word translations like the NASB. Thus I said nothing disparaging about any translation. Anyone who pays any attention to anything Mr. Rippon says about the expressions of others is naive.

    Next we get Mr. Rippon saying I indicated the HCSB said "being found in the appearance as a man." So yet another wholesale falsehood, calculated to muddy the water.

    Then, after comparing apples to oranges to disparage the HCSB, he doubles down and claims our appearance somehow differs from our external form. To me, this is a distinction without a difference.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Would say that the Hcsb and Niv are aiming for the same central mediating stance on translations, and that the Hcsb did not give in to inclusive language question as much as tghe 2011 Niv did in the revision.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    That would mean then that we cannot have any valid and good translation for us if they were not continually be revised, and those revisions should be to incorporate in new understandings and source materials, and not just bending to current cultural norms and ideals...
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    But can you cite a verse or passage where you think the HCSB deviated too far from the actual message of His inspired words?

    Lets return to Psalm 46:10. Here is a central question, was God addressing Israel or the Nations outside of Israel? If God was addressing Israel, what was His message. If God was addressing the Nations, what was His message.

    Try your hand at actual bible study.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Psalm 46:11 ends with tribute to the God of Jacob, so how can God not be addressing the nation of isreal under his Old covenant with them?
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Hi Yeshua1, you had a 50/50 chance and came down on the side of all those translations reading be still.

    Of course those reading cease or stop or desist share my view that the foes of Israel are in view. That would include the NASB, HCSB, NET, and YLT.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Interesting that the people God was speaking to though knew Him as the God of Jacob, so why would heathens know Him by that name>
     
  11. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    In post number 35, which you were addressing, I was comparing HCSB renderings with the NIV. Therefore, your intemperate "loose translations" charge was indeed focusing on the NIV.

    These are your own words from 8/9/2014: "Sorry, but I have been told any critical comment directed at any English translation will be viewed as 'hate speech' and therefore will not express any view on the ESV, NIV, or NLT."

    Follow through with what you had admitted.
    Yes, because if you will kindly re-read the last paragraph of your own post #37, you will understand how your words indicated such.
    No, not "our" appearance, --Christ is the subject. It is very important that people do not get the wrong idea that Christ was not just enveloped in a out shell as a male human being for a limited time. Christ is in glory with that very same body. It is not a mere "external form."
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I see Mr. Rippon, the mindreader is yet again telling us what he constues as if related to reality.

    Next Mr. Rippon again tries to claim he cannot comprehend plain English, claiming the opposite of what I said.

    Pay absolutely no attention to this fabricator of fiction. He simply wastes time and derails thread with his inaccurate speech.
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I believe you did not understand Palm 46, did you read the whole song, it is short?

    It is the author that tells the nations that the God of Jacob is with us, that God had done much in the past, i.e. verse 6, 7, 8, and 9, and then in verse 10 says what the nations should make of His actions, i.e. cease and know that I am God, I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth.

    Seems straightforward to me, and to the scholars mentioned.
     
  14. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Some title this psalm, “A Psalm of Confidence”.
    Good observation Yeshua1, when the name Jacob is used rather than Israel, it’s certainly thought-provoking.

    Jacob, a wrestler from birth, a deal-maker, insecure; only in his God did he find completion.

    Rob
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Returning to post #35, we have a bogus comparison of two phrases, saying two different things, as if the underlying text was the same.

    Then we have Psalm 46:10 being translated correctly according to many scholars, such as provided by this quote, "In verse 10 God himself speaks to the nations (Anderson thinks the words are addressed to the people of Israel): “Stop fighting” is what he commands. The traditional Be still is widely misunderstood as a command to be reverent (in church) and meditate on God’s blessings. The Hebrew verb means to cease, be inactive."

    The HCSB contains errors, as do all translations. Has any evidence been presented that HCSB is less accurate than other functional equivalence translations? Nope.

    Now if we compared the HCSB with say the NASB95, what would we find? Places where the NASB used archaic words like soul and begotten when scholars now say other words are more accurate? Yes.

    If you switch from say the KJV family of versions, you will find the HCSB very enlightening and helpful as you consider and meditate upon God's word. But as always, I recommend the NASB as the primary study bible, and HCSB, NET, NKJV and WEB as comparison versions.
     
  16. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Well, you are indeed that, but I have borne with great patience your conduct Mister Van-man --more than most have been able to put up with. But even great patience has its limits. You need to put a lid on it.
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another post devoted to disparagement.

    1) Human external form equals human appearance. Nothing inaccurate about the HCSB version of Acts 14:2.

    2) Many versions agree that "cease" or stop, or desist are accurate translations of Psalm 46:10.

    3) If we look at Esther 3:6, ethnic identity more clearly identifies the tribal animus underlying a desire to kill
    all those associated with Mordecai.

    Bottom line, surely some verses in other versions are more accurately translated than in the HCSB, but the reverse may
    also be true, some verses in HCSB are more accurate than other versions.
     
    #57 Van, Feb 26, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2015
  18. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Snips

    Galatians

    2:4
    NIV : infiltrated our ranks
    NASB,ESV : secretly brought in
    NET Bible : slipped in
    HCSB : smuggled in
    [Things, goods, are smuggled --not people. It is an awkward choice.]

    2:18
    NIV : what I destroyed
    ESV : what I tore down
    NASB : what I have once destroyed
    NET : those things I once destroyed
    HCSB : the system I tore down
    [Using the word system here is not appropriate. And there is not an equivalent in the Greek in this passage. It was added in when it was not at all necessary.]

    5:25
    NIV : let us keep in step with the Spirit
    [The ESV reads almost the same way, it copied from the NIV --it wasn't rendered that way in the 1971 RSV.]
    NASB : let us also walk by the Spirit
    NET : let us also behave in accordance with the Spirit
    HCSB : we must also follow the Spirit
    [Just about every English translation has "let us" --not "must" in this passage. The NET translation suffers because it loses the metaphor of walking or keeping in step. But the HCSB is equally guilty in this regard.]

    Ephesians

    4:21
    NIV : when you heard about Christ...in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus.
    NASB : if indeed you have heard HIM..as the truth is in Jesus.
    NET : if indeed you have heard about him...just as the truth is in Jesus.
    ESV : assuming that you have heard about him...as the truth is in Jesus.
    HCSB : assuming you heard about him...because the truth is in Jesus.
    [Here both the ESV and HCSB are at fault. There is no assumption about the matter. It's not in the original and should not be placed in the text. And "because" is also an added feature that is not in the ooriginal and not necessary.]

    Philippians

    3:11
    NIV and NET : and so, somehow
    ESV : that by any means possible
    NASB : in order that
    HCSB : assuming that I will somehow
    [ There is no doubt about the fact that Paul certainly had the expectation to know Christ, the power of the resurrection from the dead, and His sufferings. To use the word assuming here is awfully inadequate, to say the least.]

    3:12
    NIV : arriveed at my goal
    ESV : am already perfect
    NASB : have already become perfect
    NET : already been perfected
    HCSB : am fully mature
    [Using the word "mature" doesn't match up with what's in the original.]
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    1) Gal. 2:4, of course smuggling is used of people smuggling, so a baseless disparagement. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_smuggling) The idea is that false siblings were brought in disingenuously, like a preacher keeping his true beliefs under wraps until the vote to call has been completed.

    2) G5023, tauta, is a pronoun that is being used to refer to what previously occurred. Thus if Paul builds up again justification by works of the Law, he demonstrates he is one who breaks God's law. Thus "those" would be a conservative translation, and "things" or "beliefs" can be added to better identify the pronoun's antecedent. I agree, "system" (of mistaken beliefs) goes too far afield.

    3) Galatians 5:25 is translated a number of different ways. Almost all render it as a complete sentence, ending with a period, but YLT has a semicolon. I think that is spot on. Thus verse 25 and 26 could be combined to read as follows: "If we are living by the spirit and following the spirit; we are not becoming conceited or provoking one another or envying one another." Neither "let us" nor "must" is found in the Greek.
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Ephesians 4:21, the conjunction as used does indeed mean, on the assumption that.... Yes, "because" is not included in the range of meaning of the Greek Word (2531) but "as" is indeed the most frequent translation, i.e. as the truth is in Jesus.

    Philippians 3:11, yes, "assuming" is indeed an inaccurate mistranslation. The most popular rendering is "by any means."

    Philippians 3:12, yes, mature does match up with one of the meanings of the Greek word translated perfect. G5048. But, that translation choice does not seem to capture the idea here. Paul is saying not that he has reached the goal, or been made perfect or complete, but rather he is still striving to lay hold of that goal.

    Bottom line, surely some verses in other versions are more accurately translated than in the HCSB, but the reverse may
    also be true, some verses in HCSB are more accurate than other versions.
     
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