Rick Warren Admits He's CFR

standingfirminChrist · Nov 21, 2006

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]5 Aug 2005

Christians and Muslims show compatibility in Syria

Mel Lehman
Damascus (ENI). Atop the historic Omayyad Mosque in Damascus is the Jesus minaret which honours the founder of Christianity. Inside the great mosque is the Shrine of St John the Baptist. It is a small, beautiful jewel of a church which is said to contain the head of St John who is revered by both Islam and Christianity.

I recently visited the mosque with a Syrian Christian friend. As we knelt in prayer before the Shrine of St John, trying to get a sense of the religious history of that ancient holy place, I noticed several men wearing sunglasses who were also kneeling in prayer next to the shrine.

"These are blind sheikhs," my friend told me quietly. "They offer blessings to children and people with special needs." Indeed, as I watched, I noticed several children kneeling around one of the sheikhs and receiving his blessing.

How remarkable, I thought: here is a Christian shrine inside a mosque with a minaret honouring Jesus, and Muslim holy men have chosen this small church as a place of healing to offer their blessings to children and sick people. The next day I asked Sheikh Salah Kuftaro of the Abou Al Nour Mosque in Damascus about this remarkable co-incidence of Islam and Christianity. As the son of the late Grand Mufti of Syria, Sheikh Ahmad Kuftaro, he is one of the key spiritual leaders of Syria. He and his staff gave a warm welcome.

"St John the Baptist is one of the prophets of God whom we venerate," said Sheikh Kuftaro. "If a woman is not feeling well she will ask God, through the sanctity of St John, that she be cured. Women who are childless seek the help of God so that they can conceive and have children." Through the nearly hour-long discussion Sheikh Kuftaro emphasised the close relationship between Christianity and Islam in Syria both in theology and in practice. "Religiously, we are an ideal society in Syria," he said. "We Christians and Muslims live as one family."

That relationship was demonstrated by the friendship between Sheikh Kuftaro and Mahat Farah El-Khoury, my Syrian Christian friend who had arranged the interview with the Sheikh and accompanied me to the meeting. They were old friends who had worked together for many years. They comfortably exchanged jokes between my serious questions.

Close friendships between Christian Arabs and Muslims are common in the Middle East. How much better it would be, I thought, if Christians in the West knew at least one Muslim as a personal friend, rather than getting their impression of Islam from the distorted images they receive from television.

Sheikh Kuftaro said the Canadian ambassador had visited his late father, the Grand Mufti of Syria. The ambassador asked how many Christians there were in Syria. The Grand Mufti replied that there were 17 million. The diplomat thought that perhaps there had been a problem with the translation since 17 million is roughly the total number of people in Syria, and Christians are only a minority. The Grand Mufti repeated that there were 17 million Christians in Syria "and I am a Christian. I have to be a genuine Christian," he explained, "in order for me to be an accepted Muslim." There is an "urgency" to have interreligious dialogue, Sheikh Kuftaro believes, and he and his foundation are reaching out to have dialogue with the West. "This is our duty," he said, "we have to work, to act and to meet so that we can know each other. We are all passengers on the same boat, this planet, which God ordered us to take care of." [/FONT]
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http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/5/14082.html?1128627189

Those who are claiming to be Christians there in Syria are not Christian at all. Believing they have to go through St. John to reach God or through God to reach St. John. They venerate St. John. The statement that one had to be a genuine Christian in order to be a muslim is enough to convince me that if there are any true Christians in Syria, they are not of the 17 million.

Venerating St. John and keeping his head? His shrine? Praying at his shrine? Smells highly of a form of Catholicism, not Christianity.

tragic_pizza · Nov 21, 2006

Yeah, cause aint none a them there Catherlicks real Jesus lovers, naw.

:BangHead:

Joshua Rhodes · Nov 21, 2006

Daisy said:

Try this:
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Daisy said:

http://www.adrian.warnock.info/2006/11/rick-warren-answers-his-critics-on.htm

(They look the same, but they're not)
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Thanks Daisy. I'm gonna stop reading these RW threads... they're all the same, purported and propigated by the same people all the time. The discussion (argument) serves about as much purpose as having a rabid wolverine as a hat. Say it with me... "Get over it. Get over it... get over it!"

No one is making you read RW's material, or even attend his church. SHUT UP ABOUT IT ALREADY!

“When I disagree with a rational man, I let reality be our final arbiter; if I am right, he will learn; if I am wrong, I will; one of us will win, but both will profit.” --Ayn Rand

Rufus_1611 · Nov 21, 2006

Joshua Rhodes said:

Thanks Daisy. I'm gonna stop reading these RW threads... they're all the same, purported and propigated by the same people all the time. The discussion (argument) serves about as much purpose as having a rabid wolverine as a hat.
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Have you tried this yet?

Say it with me... "Get over it. Get over it... get over it!"
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Get over it. Get over it. Get over it. Rick Warren is a new age, Message promoting, rock and rolling, member of the Council of Foreign Relations and just like the world, many Baptists seem to adore him for some unknown reason. Get over it. Get over it. Get over it. Not sure if it's working yet.

No one is making you read RW's material, or even attend his church. SHUT UP ABOUT IT ALREADY!
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No one is making you read these threads. This is the current events forum and right now, to it would seem both of our disappointments, he's news. If he would like to go back to his local church and be a pastor and stop making visits to leaders of what the US gov't defines as terrorists states and get his mug off of national television and shut his ever flapping pie hole, then I'll be the first in line to SHUT UP ABOUT IT. In the meantime, he's newsworthy.

JFox1 · Nov 21, 2006

Rick Warren is with CFR???? Is he reading The Purpose Driven Life to them? :smilewinkgrin:

Daisy · Nov 21, 2006

standingfirminChrist said:

http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/5/14082.html?1128627189

Those who are claiming to be Christians there in Syria are not Christian at all. Believing they have to go through St. John to reach God or through God to reach St. John. They venerate St. John. The statement that one had to be a genuine Christian in order to be a muslim is enough to convince me that if there are any true Christians in Syria, they are not of the 17 million.

Venerating St. John and keeping his head? His shrine? Praying at his shrine? Smells highly of a form of Catholicism, not Christianity.
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Do you really think your link & quote support the email's contention that Christianity is outlawed in Syria? You may not consider the particular person in the anecdote to be a proper Christian, but did you notice that he was allowed to worship at a Christian shrine within a Mosque? That sounds mighty tolerant to me.

standingfirminChrist · Nov 21, 2006

Daisy said:

Do you really think your link & quote support the email's contention that Christianity is outlawed in Syria? You may not consider the particular person in the anecdote to be a proper Christian, but did you notice that he was allowed to worship at a Christian shrine within a Mosque? That sounds mighty tolerant to me.
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Christian shrine? What is Christian about praying to God for John to answer prayers? I can't find that in the Word anywhere?

They have just tagged the name Christian on the mosque. That does not mean it is Christian. Give me a break.

If naming a mosque Christian makes it Christian, then I will just go out and name my house The Capitol and see how many Senators visit. ROFL.

Daisy · Nov 22, 2006

standingfirminChrist said:

Christian shrine? What is Christian about praying to God for John to answer prayers? I can't find that in the Word anywhere?

They have just tagged the name Christian on the mosque. That does not mean it is Christian. Give me a break.
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The point is, the little church is allowed not outlawed. There are other churches besides this one, but this one is remarkable for being inside a mosque.

sfiC said:

If naming a mosque Christian makes it Christian, then I will just go out and name my house The Capitol and see how many Senators visit. ROFL.
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That's cute, but that does not describe the situation.

Perhaps this next Christian is Christian "enough" for you:

Middle Easter

04-14-05 23:25

MEL LEHMAN DAMASCUS -- A few blocks from the house where St. Paul regained his sight and began preaching the Gospel, the Rev. Butros Zaour continues the work the apostle began here nearly 2,000 years ago.

Zaour is pastor of the National Evangelical Church in Damascus, one of about 30 Presbyterian churches in Syria and Lebanon. He's an energetic man with bright eyes and a quick smile, and he welcomes me warmly during a recent visit.

With a congregation of nearly 500 members and an active youth program to oversee, Zaour is also a busy man -- especially on this day, as he and his church prepare to celebrate Holy Week.

On Palm Sunday, he tells me, children from his church, along with members of other congregations, will carry their celebration throughout Christian neighborhoods of Damascus with palms, candles and drums.

There is more .... (linkie)
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So they have churches and parades in the street...how is Christianity outlawed in Syria?

The Galatian · Nov 22, 2006

I'm wondering if these folks being discussed aren't Alawites. They are somewhat unorthodox Muslims, with a special reverence for Jesus, and have incorporated other religious and philosophical ideas in their worship.

Daisy · Nov 22, 2006

The Galatian said:

I'm wondering if these folks being discussed aren't Alawites. They are somewhat unorthodox Muslims, with a special reverence for Jesus, and have incorporated other religious and philosophical ideas in their worship.
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The one in sfiC's anecdote may be, but the second one from mine is Presbyterian (head of 1 of the 30 Presbyterian churches in Syria & Lebanon.

The Alawites sound different from the Sunnis.

standingfirminChrist · Nov 22, 2006

If the churches in Syria were teaching and preaching the full counsel of God, they would not be allowed in that muslim country where Christians are hated and killed for their faith.

Presbyterian churches in Syria? Everybody knows how liberal the Presbyterian chruch has become.

I suggest you order and read the book 'Judgment Day' by Dave Hunt. It may open your eyes to just how bad it really is over there.

LadyEagle · Nov 22, 2006

3-page warning: This thread will be closed no sooner than 4:45 a.m. ET by one of the moderators.

Lady Eagle

av1611jim · Nov 22, 2006

Is it just me or did NOBODY notice the name of the Presby. church?

National...

Just like in China today, '1938 Germany, 1960's Russia, etc... NATIONAL churches. They are no more a church than the man in the moon.

These are compromisers. Get it through your think heads and past your thin skin folks. NATIONAL churches.

If you don't get the point, then yer hopeless.

lgpruitt · Nov 22, 2006

Joshua Rhodes said:

Space... the final frontier...
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These are the voyages of the starship interprise....grew up a trekie....

LadyEagle · Nov 23, 2006

Closed per previous warning. LE

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