Rick Warren on God's Will being done in the wake of the emotion of 9-11

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Did the will of man over-ride the will of God? Was God helpless to stop 9-11? Can we discuss this objectively from a Scriptural POV without allowing the emotion of the topic to send us into a fit?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  2. tinytim

    tinytim
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    God's will is always done, even when it is the will of man.
    God is always in control, even when it seems we are.
    From our perspective, we can't see everything.
     
  3. J.D.

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    Warren seems to be leaning toward the likes of Tony Compolo, who denies that God has any control over nature whatsoever. Compolo says God was "crying" and "wishing he could stop it" when Hur. Katrina hit N.O.
     
  4. webdog

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    How do you get that from this article?

    God allowed 9/11. Allowing something does not mean He has no control over it. Allowing it doesn't mean He caused it, so we can't say that a sinful act done by those who hate God was in "God's will".
     
  5. El_Guero

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    IMHO

    No one can override God. Not man, not angels, not demons.

    But, if God wanted to punish His people in America for our sin, He did not warn us through His ministers like He has done biblically . . . So, I would say that this was the result of man's will and man's evil nature choosing to commit evil.



     
  6. JamieinNH

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    God will is always done... it made seem like on the surface that Man's will is over shadowing God's will, but anyone with faith and knowledge in our God knows he is in control of everything, everyone, and God's will be done.

    I feel he lets us have free range sometime to get to the same point.. Like taking different paths to get to the same spot. We travel down roads that God would rather us not be on, but utilmatily<sp> he brings that path around to where he wanted us to begin with.

    My life, and I am sure other's are like this. For years I fought the notion that I would go to school and become a minister or a man of God. But years later, with his gentle nugging, God has won my heart over and I am now on the path he asked me to be on years ago.

    In the end though... when all is said and done, God's will be done, not man's.


    Jamie
     
  7. J.D.

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    If God allowed it, He must have been willing for it to happen. I know, it's hard to hard to admit that nothing happens unless God wills it. Please don't bring up your personal tragedies again, we've been through that already. Or am I thinking of someone else? Anyway, I'm not unsympathetic. Sometimes I don't why things happen. Why did God move my dear children to the other side of the continent? Why have man-pleasers been promoted over me in spite of my many years of hard work? Why am I stuck thousands of miles away from my childhood home that I continually pine for? The bible answer is "for my good and His glory", but it sure doesn't seem that way sometimes. But it is for my good, for the bible tells me so. And most of the time I actually feel that way.

    Maybe I misjudge Warren, but I can't help but feel that somewhere underneath that sophistry is a rank liberal waiting to be exposed for what he really is. Sorry if that offends you.
     
  8. J.D.

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    Okay go ahead and bring up your tragedies - I see that's exactly what I did after I told you not to. Sorry again.
     
  9. JamieinNH

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    Was this directly at me?


    Jamie
     
  10. webdog

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    So when He tells man to follow Him...and they don't...it's His will? Either you have a different definition of "will" than I do, or something's not quite right. This is what I mean about calvinism being the logical conclusion of God being the author of sin.
     
  11. J.D.

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    No, it was directed at Webdog. But now I'm sorry I said it. After I saw it there in the forum it seemed so harsh.

    I'm a bundle of emotions tonight. This is the first posting I've done for a few weeks and I really don't have time now to do it either. Gotta go to bed - check you guys out later!
     
  12. El_Guero

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    I can still edit my post that is above your post.

    So I pray that before you go to sleep - you edit some of your post.

    Good night.

    Wayne


     
  13. npetreley

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    Ugh. More Rick Warren nonsense. Oh well, he wouldn't be in this position if it wasn't God's will. But I still wish someone as visible would challenge him publicly on statements like this.

     
  14. webdog

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    Can you please show where I even mentioned any "personal tragedies" in my post? I think you are losing it...:BangHead:

    If you feel so sorry you said it...why didnt' you edit it? You had plenty of time to do so.
     
    #14 webdog, Sep 15, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2006
  15. J.D.

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    From my post:

    Yes, I am "losing it", but what else do you want from me - my firstborn?
     
  16. webdog

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    You stated that you were sorry for saying it...because you did the same thing. I did NOT state any "personal tragedy" to begin with for you to "do the same thing".
     
  17. Lagardo

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    In His sovereignty, God allows the will of mankind all the time. This is why we have sin in the world.
     
  18. npetreley

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    Yes, but it's still His will. Not even a sparrow falls to the ground apart from His will. It may be His permissive will, but it is His will, nevertheless, and He allows it because it is part of His grand plan. "You meant it for evil but God meant it for good." The emphasis is on the fact that God meant it to happen according to His good purpose, even though Joseph's brothers willfully sinned.

    That's what's wrong with Rick Warren's statements. His statement comes right out and says that man trump's God's will on a regular basis. Rick doesn't even imply that God allowed it for His own good purpose. He's saying that it happened against God's will.
     
  19. Andy T.

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    The problem with this discussion is that we are using different definitions of "will". There are different kinds of God's will. There is his decretive will in which God decrees all that comes to pass. There is his imperative will which are commands given to man. There is his hidden will. I know some balk at using multiple definitions of God's will, but when doing theology it is inescapable to do so. And I think most theologians do so, whether Calvinist or not.
     
  20. StraightAndNarrow

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    So, where was God in the Garden of Eden when Eve decided to taste the apple an give it to Adam? Do any of us understand the mind of God or His ways? I think not.
     

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