Rick Warren on Music

Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by Pastor Larry, Aug 19, 2004.

  1. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    What's your reaction?
     
  2. Gershom

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    "A song can often touch people in a way that a sermon can't."

    That may be true in some cases. I can be touched by singing a particular song or hymn, rejoicing in the truth it presents and the sweet sound of the family of God lifting up their voice to the LORD, then not be touched or edified by a shallow sermon.

    Music can bypass intellectual barriers and take the message straight to the heart."

    I don't know that "music can bypass intellectual barriers and take the message straight to the heart" though. If the truth is not presented in the song, it doesn't get past the "intellectual barrier" for me. So I reckon it does not go to the heart in that case. The Bible instructs us to guard or hearts.
     
  3. Johnv

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    Sermons are not the end-all and be-all of worship. If the Holy Spirit is limited to the sermon, we're all in trouble.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Pastor Larry

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    John,

    My question was directed more at "bypass intellectual barriers and take the message straight to the heart."
     
  5. Johnv

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    Well, the statement is that music CAN bypass intellectual barriers and take the message straight to the heart. I know for me, that's often true, depending on how the music is tied to the sermon. I remember once my pastor giving a sermon at Christmas about Mary being with child. The song right before the message was "Mary, Did You Know". It put my heart in the right attitude to receive the sermon.
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    Gotta be careful here. We (Western Civilization) are trained to think like Greek - logical, intellectual, absolutes.

    Eastern Civilization is more geared to word pictures, intuitive, touchy-feely (hands on) world.

    Music is unique. It crosses back and forth between the external logic (Greek/male) and internal intuitive (Jewish/female) mindset. And reaches everyone.

    I preach with intensity using the narrow absolutes of Greek logic. I seek music to reach the other side that the most golden-tongued could not reach.

    But even the most beautiful and soul-touching music MUST have order and correct doctrine to appeal to me! [​IMG]
     
  7. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    The thing that jumped out at me was his distinction between "heart" and "intellectual." Apart from the theological problems with that distinction, do we really want to reach a "heart" apart from "intellect"? That sounds like pure emotionalism. LEt's pull on their heartstrings without challenging their intellect with truth.

    Anything that bypasses the intellect has no place in Christianity. Of course, feel free to challenge that statement. I am trying to think of something that would bypass the intellect.
     
  8. John Gilmore

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    What's your reaction? </font>[/QUOTE]Music is useful in worship as the Psalms attest. However, music in hymn and liturgy only complements the sermon. A sermon delivered by a man who speaks in the stead and by the command of Christ gives the congregation personal assurance that their sins have been forgiven by Christ.

     
  9. paulsfocus

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    What's your reaction? </font>[/QUOTE]I think music is very powerful, people should be careful how they use it.
     
  10. SpiritualMadMan

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    Yes, we want to reach the heart...

    Alienated from God because of an ignorance of the heart...
    I know it is hard for 'men' to accept the reality that God actually has a place for emotions from the heart... [​IMG]

    But, it's true...

    To be fair, though...

    Some of us got intensely saved in our hearts first then studied to show ourselves approved as time progressed becoming more intellectually convinced of our own heart knowledge...

    Others studied first, became convinced of the turth of God's Word and then *allowed* the Holy Spirit to convince their hearts...

    But, it is clear, IMHO, that the difference between heaven and hell is the distance between a man's mental knowledge and assent and his heart...
     
  11. Bob Colgan

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    "A song can touch a person the way a sermon can't?"
    I believe this to be true. But a song must never take the place of a Sermon/Gods Word. There is a time and a place for it. The Lord inhabits the praises of His people.


    I have problems with the second part. First of all Praise is to me a chance to worshipe the Lord. To praise him Im not really recieving a message more that I'm worshiping Him.
    I believe music to be very powerfull I have read some material ref how music is used in cultures to work up a state of being allmost high
    We see this in tribes in Africa where the people are as zombys. I believe we also see it churches around the USA Penticostal Revivals. Where music is played over and over. So do I wan't music to by pass my intelect no. Do I wan't the Holy Spirit to have His way in my life and move me greatly yes as long as it's Him and not a man made working up by music.

    Bob C
     
  12. Pastor Larry

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    What is the heart in Scripture? The heart is never emotions only. It is always connected to the intellect.

    The great danger of music is that it bypasses the intellect and goes straight to the emotions, appealing to the wrong thing. Any truth must first touch the intellect before the emotions.
     
  13. SpiritualMadMan

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    Pastor Larry,

    I agree...

    One teaching I have used a lot is "The Way of The Christ Life".

    It describes man as tri-partite: Spirit; Soul; Body...

    I further, for the sake of ease of instruction, sub-divide the Soul as: Mind; Will; Emotions...

    Don't have any graphics...

    One of the chief emphasis' is that the "Will" is supposed to be "In Charge".

    If not the whole man is subject to attack...

    The "Cerebral" by Intellectually Deep Arguments...

    The "Emotional" by things that stir the heart strings...

    So, I have to agree that the intellect must also be involved...

    But, not solely, involved... [​IMG]
     
  14. Pastor Larry

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    I reject the tri-partite nature of man since man only has two parts: material and immaterial. :D ... But having said that, I would only add that the emotions must be driven by the intellect. They cannot, or should not, operate apart from the intellect. I think this is the point of Edwards' Religious Affections, where he makes the distinction between proper emotions and improper ones, what he called affections vs. passions. I haven't read it but I intend to soon.
     
  15. SpiritualMadMan

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    [​IMG] So, why did Paul break it out into Spirit, Soul, and Body?
     
  16. Pastor Larry

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    The same reason Christ broke it out into heart, soul, mind, and strength (as did Moses, or actually God giving the Law to Moses). They are euphemisms for the entire person ... [​IMG]
     
  17. Mike McK

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    What's your reaction? </font>[/QUOTE]I can't say "Amen!" enough.

    I have an old hymn book that I keep by my bedside and often incorporate into my private worship time.

    The great hymns often drive scriptural truths home to me that can seem dry after a while.

    I don't think it stops there, either.

    There are many non-Christian songs that convey deep spiritual truths to me, too.

    A good example would be the Los Lonely Boys' "Heaven", or Mac McAnally's "Somewhere Nice Forever" (possibly the most beautiful song about death and God's faithfulness I've ever heard).


    Now Playing: Amazing Rythym Aces – Amazing Rythym Aces
     
  18. Bro. Curtis

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    Amazing Rythym Aces. Now THERE'S a band. Great stuff.

    I have their first four records on CD now. And to quote a song from the "Stacked Deck" album.....

    "Precious savior, thou will guide us. 'Till we reach that golden shore. Where the angels wait to join us, in thy praise forevermore."

    Great stuff. They still tour, doncha know, although they lost their original drummer a few years back.
     
  19. Pastor Larry

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    Wow ... This is an oldie ...

    So, Mike, you think it is okay to try to bypass intellectual barriers to reach people?
     
  20. dianetavegia

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    I heard back about 8 years ago on the Toccoa Falls College Radio Station that polls show that 85% of what people 'know' about God came from a hymn. That shocked me but now that the songs are all four words repeated 10 times or more... I'd like to have something to back up those numbers. I really wish I had the information to back this up and if someone knows where to find it, I'd love to share it with my church.....
     

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