Rider on the White Horse

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Bro. Williams, Aug 14, 2007.

  1. Bro. Williams

    Bro. Williams
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    Surely this thread is a ret(h)read...

    Who is the Rider on the White Horse?

    Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
     
  2. skypair

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    AntiChrist --- more specifically, a future Pope. The horse looks like Christ's because it represents the false Christian church. He gets the crown from the 10 kings (Rev 17:12-13) -- a crown in place of his "fish hat." We see him, the "prince," in Dan 11:42-44 conquoring against the KoS (red horseman) and KoN (Black horseman) as he comes into Israel (also see Zech 5:1-5).

    Paul tells us about this "mystery of iniquity" that "doth already work." It is iniquity born in the church, in the "bride," that leads to "the man of sin" first who is the 7th king and the "son of perdition," the 8th who will be indwelt by Satan. (2Thes 2:3-10).

    skypair
     
  3. ReformedBaptist

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    Good question. I have found that the majority of the historic commentators on this passage (Matthew Hnery, JF&B, et.) apply the passage either to Christ or to the administration of the Gospel. Wesley regards it as Trajan, who succeded Nerva after his death in 98 A.D.
     
  4. Jkdbuck76

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    I don't think it is Christ. Whenever Christ is talked about in the Revelation, He has a sword; not a bow (w/out arrows I might add).

    sarcasm / I cannot hold to Wesley's interpretation.... he was waaaaay to Wesleyan in his theology / sarcasm
     
    #4 Jkdbuck76, Aug 15, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2007
  5. Bro. Williams

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    "IF" Revelation 6:2 is a reference to Jesus Christ -- which the majority of Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Church of God, Assemblies of God, Roman Catholics, Mormons, Seventh-day Adventists, Jehovah Witnesses, etc., teach that it is - then He (Jesus - "if" he is the rider on the white horse in 6:2) is NOW a king; he is NOW conquering; and this means that "the kingdom" is gradually spreading as Jesus Christ conquers the earth.

    Is this not the common teaching of Augustine, Eusebius, and Origen?

    This is the same Roman Catholic ecclesiastical falsehood that has corrupted and defiled the face of this earth for 1,500 years. It is the teaching that "things are getting better". It is Darwin in the church.

    This teaches that Christ's church is getting more and more power over the earth, since Christ is gradually conquering the earth as a king.

    Now, is it, or isn't it?
     
  6. npetreley

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    It's obviously Roy Rogers.
     
  7. Brother Bob

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    It God giving the breath of life to man and power over all the rest of the beast of the field.
     
  8. npetreley

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    Oh, right, he has a bow. That means Roy Rogers can't be right. Did Tonto wear white?

    Seriously, I do not believe it is Jesus. I've always assumed it was a false messiah (perhaps THE false messiah). I'm not certain, though. I reserve the right to change my opinion to Roy Rogers, Tonto, or someone else.
     
  9. Brother Bob

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    Can you find in the Bible where the "white" horse did not mean "life". Also, the fourth horse was death, you thank death has already come. The second was a red horse, do you think satan has taken peace from the earth already or is it yet to come. The third horse is a black horse and he that sat on him had a pair of scales. Do you believe whatever a man sows, so shall he reap?
    ..............:) Just my opinion.

    If you want to know about the 5th seal, I will tell you later. :)
     
  10. npetreley

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    Do you know what "lucifer" means? Light/white does not always guarantee goodness.
     
  11. Brother Bob

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    I said white horse. I am not of those who believe in lucifer falling out of heaven, sorry. I read where he had a desire to be as God and lifted up to the heavens but didn't make it.
     
    #11 Brother Bob, Aug 18, 2007
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  12. Bro. Williams

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    Bob, can you expound on that? Do you believe Lucifer is satan?
     
  13. Brother Bob

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    I doubt it. I do not believe anything unclean has ever been in Heaven where God is. From what I read Lucifer, just wanted to be as God, but never left the ground. Its been a long time since I studied on it. When God first destroyed the earth by water is because he looked down and saw man's heart was evil. I hear many references to what happened before Adam, but there is no record that I know of. I have even heard there was another people before.
    Maybe you could give me some thoughts of yours, I would be glad to study and respond to you. I find Lucifer's name one time in the scripture. Then I find where a war took place in heaven in Revelations and someone put the two together. I do not believe the war was in Heaven where God is. There was the third heaven that Paul spoke of, so there must be a second. I believe the Church is one of them, and believe when the church was in the flesh, under the Law that Satan had his seat. Jesus died to take the church out of the flesh and put it in the heart and that to me is when Satan was cast out. For in the same passage in Rev. it goes on and says, "now has salvation and strength come" and thine accuser that accuse thy brethren day and night before God, hath been cast down, there is no night where God is. The passage goes on and tells when the war was fought and won by the shedding of the blood of the Lamb, for it says "they have overcome him by the blood of the Lamb.
    Please give me your ideas on Lucifer, I am not dead set on it but do not believe he was ever where God is. If you like PM me. I am writing this early Sun Morning and I am called to a church which is well over an hour to get there, so I am up early. I have to leave soon in order to get there in time. It is a Communion service. I have other ideas on Satan and Lucifer, but don't have time right now. I heard one person on here put up a pretty good argument that Lucifer was Satan, but yet did not prove to me that he was where God is. I don't think anything unclean has ever been there. I hear doctrine on here about the angels and Lucifer, that I have never read in the scripture.

    I have read but not sure that "Lucifer" does not even appear in the Hebrew text. The Hebrew behind this translation consists of three words meaning "Helel son of Shachar", which is probably a name for the morning star (Venus), and thus is translated as "son of the morning star" by most translations. The translation of "Lucifer" was carried over from the reading in Jerome's Latin Vulgate, not the Hebrew text.

    Supposeably a Hebrew Scholar;
    In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer."

    Satan himself told God where he came from, and it was not heaven.

    Job 1:
    6: Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
    7: And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.


    I am sure others will jump in now with opposite veiws but that is good, maybe we can learn something from it.


    Thanks for the link to Baptist History, I added it to my favorites and will read more when I get time.

    BBob
     
    #13 Brother Bob, Aug 19, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2007
  14. Ed Edwards

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    Isa 14:12 (KJV1611 Edition):

    How art thou fallen from heauen, ||O Lucifer, sonne of the morning?
    how art thou cut downe to the ground, which didst weaken the nations?


    Error Doctrine:

    The name is 'Lucifer', his role is Lead Devil, his title is
    'Satan' (the accuser).


    Margin note: ||OR, O day-
    starre.


    This shows that what is being compared here is the King of Bayblon
    and the planet Venus, AKA /also known as/: Day Star,
    Morning Star, Evening Star (according to when seen in the sky).

    Blows that doctrine right down the tubes.
    We don't know the name of Satan What'shisname, the Lead Devil.
     
  15. Brother Bob

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    Ed;
    Forgive me for not understanding which doctrine "down the tubes"?

    The Geneva Bible, 1549
    In the Geneva Bible, published in 1549, they did use the word, "Lucifer":
    "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer*, son of the morning!
    Please notice the asterisk, in that verse, behind the name of Lucifer. That is there because the translators of the Geneva Bible, 60 years before the King James (therefore not a part of any New Age plot) put an explanatory footnote here. Here is what they said about the word "Lucifer." "You who thought yourself most glorious and as it were placed in the heaven for the morning star that goes before the sun, is called Lucifer, to whom Nebuchadnezzar is compared."
    Did you see that? These translators, 60 years before the King James, say that this verse is not about Satan, but Nebuchadnezzar. Admittedly, they do believe that Nebuchadnezzar is being compared to Lucifer, but they recognize that this verse, this Lucifer, is not Satan, but the King of Babylon.
     
    #15 Brother Bob, Aug 19, 2007
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  16. skypair

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    Bob, Ed,

    I believe that the Rev 12 reference is to the war in the earth's heaven -- that the demons (princes of the power of the air, Eph 6) are cast down from there -- and this allows God's angels to "preach the "everlasting gospel" from the air, Rev 14:6 ( something ther can't do now).

    As to Lucifer, Rev 12:10 also says Satan is the accuser of the brethern before God and though it does say "night and day," I take that to mean 24/7/12 as we know it. So to me, he alone still has access.

    I find this also --- that he is probably the one at the wedding without "wedding garments" (Mt 22) which shows access where he doesn't belong also. Note that Satan is cast into the pit (Rev 20:2) AFTER all Christ's enemies have been defeated (Rev 19:15-18) and the angels, ostensibly, have "gathered everything that offends"(Mt 13:40-42).

    There is also circumstantial evidence that he did so. Some say that the serpent was a "shining" being much as Moses and Elijah at the transfiguration, indicating having just come from the presence of God (re: also Moses at Sinai). This, it is said (I haven't studied it closely for myself) was one of the reasons Eve believed it.

    I am with you on where God interviewed Satan about Job -- on the earth. I also believe that Satan and his angels were cast out of 3rd heaven in the beginning. Just not that Satan does not have access now. For whatever purpose God allows this, I don't know.


    Bob --- Do you suppose that Rev 14 might be alluing to future Babylon (Rev 18) and future "Nebby" cast down and possessing AC in some way (Rev 12)??

    skypair
     
    #16 skypair, Aug 19, 2007
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  17. Brother Bob

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    Yes, I think this in the future but I think Babylon is used as a symbol for the sins of whoredom, etc.
     
  18. Ed Edwards

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    Brother Bob: //Forgive me for not understanding
    which doctrine "down the tubes"?//

    I thought I was as clear as possible:
    (if you can help me find a better way to say it,
    I'm sure I could learn from you)

    Would it be better to say this?

    The good doctrine is this:
    The son of perdition's Role Title is SATAN (the acccuser),
    he is the lead devil. His name is unknown.

    The Catholic (especially English Catholic /Anglican/ )
    church doctrine in error is:

    The son of perdition's Role Title is SATAN (the acccuser),
    he is the lead devil. His name is LUCIFER (light bringer).
     
  19. Brother Bob

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    The good doctrine is this:
    The son of perdition's Role Title is SATAN (the acccuser),
    he is the lead devil. His name is unknown.



    Thank you, I think I understand you are saying that "good doctrine" is: His name is unknown.

    I think you are saying also, that His name is "lead Devil".
     
    #19 Brother Bob, Aug 19, 2007
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  20. Ed Edwards

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    I got interrupted by my College age son who starts
    School tomorrow. I was going to add:

    Jesus is not the morning star - in one way He is like the morning star.
    Satan is not the morning star - in one way he is like the morning star.

    Some wierd people who can't keep up with metaphors
    have a false doctrine:
    CHRIST IS SATAN (this doctrine is FALSE
    or the false doctrine :
    CHRIST is the brother of SATAN (this doctrine is FALSE).
     

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