Robert Schuller?

You should really read his book "Self Esteem: The New Reformation". It is very eye-opening. I think if you read that you would see where I am coming from. That is "proof" of his teaching.

Excerpts, anyone? OK!

-His definition of sin: "any act or thought that robs myself or another human being of his or her self-esteem" (p14)
-On the next page (p15), he states that sin is a "lack of self-dignity", after he states that man's sin is not his depravity.
-He rejects the idea that sin is rebellion against God (p67)
-It is no surprise then to see that on p99 he says that salvation is to become a "possibility thinker", "to be permanently lifted from sin and shame to self-esteem".
-He states that "being born again means that we must be changed from a negative to a positive self-image-from inferiority to self-esteem, from fear to love, from doubt to trust" (p68).
-He insists that salvation must be "man-centered" rather than "God-centered" (p64); redefiining theological inquiry as being wrong to focus on God rather than man.
-Hell is redefined as "the loss of pride that naturally follows separation from God. "A person is in hell when he has lost his self-esteem" (pp 14-15).

His book is not surprisingly barren of Scripture, and when it does show up it is badly misinterpreted.

These are just a few of my highlighted errors. But, I am sure that there are many more.

If you can defend his view...please feel free.

 

I heard John MacArthur share this quote in a sermon not too long ago. I searched the internet and finally found it.

In a 10/5/84 letter to Christianity Today, Schuller wrote, "I don't think anything has been done in the name of Christ and under the banner of Christianity that has proven more destructive to human personality and hence counterproductive to the evangelism enterprise than the often crude, uncouth, and unchristian strategy of attempting to make people aware of their lost and sinful condition"

Hmm, ever read Romans, Robert??

(Side note: there are some interesting things written about him on the internet. I wonder how much is true, probably a lot. But, I will refrain from posting any of the stuff I may find on there, just to be even-handed. All the above (except this quote I found, but I knew beforehand)is from my own findings of his teachings in that one book: SelfEsteem-The New Reformation)

 

WHAT!!

The only harvest Schuller has produced, if any, is a harvest of tares. He does not preach or teach the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ any more than Hinn or any other false prophet.

It is sure easy by reading this thread to see who is left-wing in their theology and who is not.

 

According to my cousin, the cleric you're referring to was present as an interview guest, and WAS NOT ALLOWED to deliver the morning message. The message was delivered by Schuller the elder.

I've only seen one message not presented by a pastor of the denomination, and that was a presbyterian Military Chaplain on Memorial Day.

 

Not at all. But I do question what you think total depravity is. Total depravity is not man's inability to do anything good. It is, however, man's inability to do anything perfect according to God's plan.

The website of the Reformed Church in America (the denomination that governs Robert Schuller's church) states the following:

The exact phrase "total depravity," even though it has been part of our theological vocabulary for a long time, does not appear in Scripture, in the creeds, in John Calvin, or any of the confessions we embrace. Over the years it has come to be understood by many, both inside and outside our tradition, as describing the complete and total inability of human beings to do anything that is good. This understanding is neither biblical nor reasonable.

So if you have a problem with the man's view on depravity, take it up with the denomination, not the congregation.

 

This is the same quote that's been floating around for years, and has already been posted on this thread, so no need to go over it again. While I respect John MacArthur, he stops just short of being a hyperfundamentalist, and I've disagreed with his teachings many times.

 

Not at all. But I do question what you think total depravity is. Total depravity is not man's inability to do anything good. It is, however, man's inability to do anything perfect according to God's plan.

The website of the Reformed Church in America (the denomination that governs Robert Schuller's church) states the following:

The exact phrase "total depravity," even though it has been part of our theological vocabulary for a long time, does not appear in Scripture, in the creeds, in John Calvin, or any of the confessions we embrace. Over the years it has come to be understood by many, both inside and outside our tradition, as describing the complete and total inability of human beings to do anything that is good. This understanding is neither biblical nor reasonable.

So if you have a problem with the man's view on depravity, take it up with the denomination, not the congregation. </font>[/QUOTE]and what say you about this&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God.

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Luk 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none [is] good, save one, [that is], God.

you should take this up with God

 

The topic is not about what constitutes total depravity, so I prefer not to hijack the tread. I'm sure many will appreciate it if you didn't either. But to answer your question, the comments Jesus makes are in reference to him vs the Father. It was not intended to touch on the topic of depravity. He was responding to someone addressing him as "Good Master".

 

Johnv, this thread is not about MacArthur...I just said I heard that quote from him. But, I provided the source of the quote, so you can deal with the quote itself.

Do you have nothing to say about the citations I have given??

You don't address the issues I raise, and then you pick on a guy I made mention of in passing....someone is avoiding the issues.

Please address the quotes I have given you DIRECTLY FROM SCHULLER'S BOOK!

 

I believe the quotes have already been covered in this thread early on. I would be repeating myself by posting something I already posted. Nothing personal against you or anything of the sort. I just think the topic has already been addressed.

 

On the first page of this thread someone mentioned 2 quotes from one of his books. You disregarded them as if they weren't true or out of context.

I have read the book and am looking at the quotes, not a website. The quotes are not out of context...they are what he believes.

You can defend him if you like but I think I have given solid reasons why I believe he teaches "another gospel" and is therefore a "false teacher".

 

Teatime, I just saw your post. I called the Hour of Power (they're just a few miles from me), and they informed me that they were unaware of this site. Apparantly, surftheweb.com is using the name of the organization to as a scam, and advertizing on google. The ministry does not own the url hourofpower.us. The person said this happenned a while back with a different company that was trying to make money off of robertschuller.com (which has since been shut down).

On a hunch, I did a search on a couple of other television ministers, and found several unauthorized sites like this one. I'm currently in the process of calling each of them to let them know their name is being used in a potentially illegal manner.

Regardless of one's views towards this person or any other person with a tv ministry, this type of activity should not be tolerated. If any one of you is a member of a church, or knows anyone who attends a prominent church, I urge you to do some checking to see if their ministry is being taken advantage of, and inform the party involved.

 

i can think of way better constructive ways to spend my time other then looking after the financial interest of apostate church organizations. let them do their own research and protect their own mess. this of coarse is regarding schuller and others like his ministry

 

I find that rather hypocritical, and frankly, unbiblical. We're supposed to stand up against evil. Where does it say that we can allow evil if it's done towards someone that we think is wrong? That simply makes us an accessory to evil, and makes us no better than the persons we're accusing.

It's unfortunate that you don't think I did the right thing. It almost sounds like you think I did the wrong thing. Frankly, I'm surprised, and a little disappointed.

 

frankly i believe your time would be better served in warning people about his unbiblical gospel. and frankly i am glad i disappoint your liberal views

 

Oh no, the "L" word. I do something right and biblical, and you pull the "L" word out. How long before you accuse me of not being a Christian?

 

let me just say that i am very suspect of those who defend liberal religionists in-which schuller is. again if you really want to do something right and biblical then warn against clear unbiblical ministers is the Christian duty.

 

I DID do something right, and I got persecuted by you for it. Your moral relativism reveals your own liberal religionist views.

 

So, if I am to understand you...you have no problem with what Schuller teaches?