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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by stanleyg, Jul 19, 2006.

  1. TaterTot

    TaterTot Guest

    Oh, I dont agree with their trash either. ;)
     
  2. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    Joseph, I understand you got your view from reading the Bible, but are there any theologians past or present that hold your view?
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    They are mostly preterists...although I am quite sure there are probably some non-preterists who hold this view as well. But, what does it matter who agrees and disagrees with it as long as Jesus agrees and even teaches it?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  4. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    It matters because if you find yourself as the only one who sees things one way, there is probably problems with your view.
     
  5. TaterTot

    TaterTot Guest

    I am not a preterist, and I dont see that in the NT teaching.
     
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    That is, of course, not always true. Either way, I am not alone in that view, as it was first taught by Christ himself as I explained on the first page of this thread. If you can refute my understanding of this teaching of Christ, then by all means, do so.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  7. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    Jesus does not specify which one will be left in his teaching.

    Are there other Scriptures that support your view besides this one?
     
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    In keeping with the context of the comparison, the ones who were not expecting the judgment of God were the ones taken away. The righteous, therefore, are the ones left behind. Jesus did state who would be taken away.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  9. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    you are reading that into the comparison. Jesus does not specify and we should leave it at that. Comparisons can be stretched to mean something they do not intend to mean.
     
  10. TaterTot

    TaterTot Guest

    "as it was in the days of Noah, so shall the coming of the Lord be..." - wasnt that reminiscent of the way people lived their daily lives and were taken off guard despite the warnings that were given? I just cant reconcile this concept that you have laid out.
     
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Why did Jesus make the comparison? What was the purpose of the comparison? Once you answer that question, you will get to the heart of the meaning of the comparison. Who were the ones left behind in the flood? The righteous or the wicked? Who are the ones left behind during the end times? Why would Jesus make the comparison if there was no meaning to it?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    That is certainly a good argument except Jesus then goes on to use the same language to describe those who are being judged as taken away as he did in the example of Noah. There is clearly a comparison being made on both points.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  13. TaterTot

    TaterTot Guest

     
  14. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    You are assuming Jesus made the comparison to show the details of who would be taken and left. When He was sharing the comparison to give information regarding the big picture. You are basically doing allegory backwards.
     
  15. TaterTot

    TaterTot Guest

    So either heaven will be here on earth, or there are 2 second comings.
     
  16. TaterTot

    TaterTot Guest

    what about destruction by fire? Could it possibly be that that is to what you should be referring instead of the "rapture" ?
     
  17. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    No. Heaven is not on earth. It is in heaven. It is appointed to all men to die once, and then the judgment. Those justified and declared righteous in Christ will be glorified and worship God forever in Heaven. Those who are lost will be taken away to eternal torment in Hell.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  18. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Huh? What are you talking about, Tater?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  19. TaterTot

    TaterTot Guest

    But you said Christ will come, take "them" away, and that you will still be here. Why does he have to come again after that? That would a third coming.
     
  20. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Huh? What are you talking about, Tater? It is appointed unto all men to die once, and then the judgment. The righteous will go to heaven when they die, and the lost will go to Hell when they die. He does not have to come again after that. The Day of the Lord is a Day of judgment and Salvation. As it was for Noah, the wicked were taken away (judged, killed) and the righteous were left behind (saved). So, the same is true with all the times God has come in judgment. He has judged Israel for their wickedness time and time again and taken them away into exile, while there has always been a remnant who were saved (left behind). Such is also true with those whom Christ saves. There is a remnant who will be saved and a vast majority of lost who will follow the broad road that leads to their own destruction. I don't think Christ was interested as much in describing the end of the world as much as modern day premillers are.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
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