Rom 5:15-17

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.​

This verse proves you are wrong.

My beliefs are in line with scripture's definition of "works", and the Apostle Paul's definition of "works." Your view contradicts scripture.

 

SBM must be unaware of what a covenant is. Here is Meriam-Webster's definition:

Covenant
1
a usually formal, solemn, and binding agreement : compact
2
a : a written agreement or promise usually under seal between two or more parties especially for the performance of some action
b : the common-law action to recover damages for breach of such a contract

A covenant is an agreement between two parties. That means both sides have to engage their will for an agreement to be made. If you do A, I will do B.

 

It's good to see you now understand faith to mean "belief". Can you list the scripture in Genesis where it says that God gave Abraham faith to believe the promise, or is that something imposed on the scripture by your Calvinistic theology?

Because from what I read in the scripture, it says:

Gen 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.​

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Oh brother.

 

And what do you think the phrase "works of righteousness" means? It means following the law. It's not "any works" as you suppose ... it is specifically works of righteousness. The Bible continues to prove you wrong and define "works" as "following the law" and it defines "faith" as "believing the gospel". Indeed "works" is NOT defined in scripture as "anything you do."

 

You really have no answer, do you? You keep parroting the same argument that I have soundly refuted. You have yet to demonstrate scripturally A) that faith is not believing or B) that "works" means anything you do rather than the law. On the other hand, I have quite literally shown you dozens of verses that explicitly support my argument.

I have shown you beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Bible equates believing and faith, and it also equates works with the law.

Not according to scripture. The Bible defines faith as belief in the gospel. I showed you dozens of scriptures for this which you ignored. You can see any of my previous posts for a sound refutation of this point.

James also says that faith without works is dead.

Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.​

Even here in James faith is equated with belief. James makes the point that our works demonstrate "what we believe". James says that it is our belief that saves us, and it is works that demonstrates what we believe.

For example, if I was standing in the middle of the street and a car were coming toward me, and I told everyone I didn't believe the car was going to hit me... that I was going to stand strong because I had faith that the car would miss me... and then at the last minute I jumped out of the way, it would be clear that I actually did not believe the car would miss me. My actions would have demonstrated what I truly believed.

Not surprisingly, this now worn out argument continues to be irrelevant. (I say not surprising because you keep using it over and over when I have thoroughly and soundly refuted it with much scripture) Whether or not faith is classified as a deed is of zero consequence to scripture. That's the part that you don't seem willing to understand. Faith and Works are Biblical terms with Biblical meanings. They are not generic terms with generic meanings. Just as "the law" is not a generic term... it means "the law of Moses." Or "the Lord" is not a generic term, it specifically means one Lord. I literally gave you dozens of scriptures that defines both "Works" and "Faith" according to the scriptural definition. You're purporting another gospel here by refusing to use the Bible's own definitions of these words.

Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, ​

Careful, friend. You are calling the Holy Spirit a liar. This isn't my idea. This is straight from scripture. Because scripture itself says explicitly that belief in Him is faith and it is not a work, therefore we know that your definition of works is inconsistent with the scripture.

 

The answer is this - you teach a false gospel, purporting that faith is a work.

The Bible clearly defines faith as "believing the gospel" and clearly defines "works" as "following the law".

Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works (ergon) of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works (ergon) of the law: for by the works (ergon) of the law shall no flesh be justified.​

Interesting the symmetry Paul uses here... he uses "faith" 3 times and "works" 3 times. He defines "faith" as believing and he defines "works" as the law.

Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works (ergon) of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;​

Rom 3:27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works (ergon)? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds (ergon) of the law.​

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This is SavedByMercy 1:1 ... this is not the Bible. God's Word makes a definitive distinction between works of the law and faith through believing.

Only according to you... but not according to scripture. According to the Apostle Paul, if I am preaching salvation by faith this means I am preaching that people are made righteous by believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

Hi savedbymercy,

Let us look more closely at the verse:

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life" (Ro.5:18).

The Greek word translated "unto" in the phrase "free gift came upon all men unto justification of life" is a preposition which speaks of "direction":
" 'eis', a Prep. governing the Accusative, and denoting entrance into, or direction and limit" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

The word 'tendency" is a synonym for the word "direction" and "a TENDENCY is an inclination toward a certain line of action (whether or not the action follows), and is often the result of inherent qualities, nature and habit" (The American College Dictionary).

Now let us look at the verse again:

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life" (Ro.5:18).

Since in the first instance where the words "all men" are used they obviously refer to all men without exception then common sense dictates that the second time those same words are used the meaning is also all men everywhere.

It is an easy thing to understand exactly what the "free gift" is:

"And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation" (2 Cor.5:19).

 

From the context it refers to all men without exception because Paul says that death passed upon ALL MEN because they sinned. There is nothing in the context that even hints that the reference is to some theory that Adam was "the Representative Head" of men.

Paul certainly would not use the term "all men" to refer to only "some" men. Again, there is nothing in the context which supports you view.

 

Answer these questions in the order I give them to you please!

1. Is "grace" of works without ceasing to be grace? - Rom. 11:6

2. Is "works" of grace without ceasing to be works? - Rom. 11:6

3. Is "faith" said to be "of grace"? - Rom. 4:16

 

Indeed, I agree. If "all men" really meant "some men" in regards to justification, then it must necessarily also mean "some men" in regards to condemnation.

In other words, to be consistent, if the justification was only for some people then not everyone would die because of Adam's sin... death would not have passed to all men.

But savedbymercy is just trying to justify his calvinistic viewpoint of limited atonement. Unfortunately for him (and other calvinists) using this passage to prove limited atonement undermines his argument for total depravity.