Roman Catholic...Christian or Cult?

The Sister Superior (I always wondered what she was superior to?) used to vilify most of my Catholic family in the parish by calling them "Cafeteria Catholics" Come to think of it, she was very accurate because they all picked & chose what they wanted to believe & ignore. And there was allot they ignored in order to keep peace. Guess thats how you get by belonging to them for 2000 odd years.

 

We are not talking about individual Catholics. We are talking about the Catholic church whether it is Christian as an institution or "church."

I know many saved Catholics are in the church of Rome and yet are on their way to heaven because they reject the gospel of Rome.

However, the institution is anything but "Christian" in any Biblical sense of the term, even as the pagans used the term in Acts 11. It is a den of iniquity and the haven of demons (1 Tim. 4:1).

 

The gospel is about Jesus Christ and his provision for sin is the sole object of faith for justification before God. It is his provision that justifies "the ungodly" who believe "IN" that promised provision. There is no justification before God by YOUR provision of faithfulness as that would be justificaiton of "the godly."

Rom. 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rome is in the business of preaching and teaching a gospel of justificaiton of the "godly" by good works! They repudiate and reject Jesus Christ and his provision as what justifies but replaces it by "faith" defined as "faithfulness" or YOUR PROVISION OF RIGHTEOUSNESS so God will justify "the godly." No such man exists.

 

Thinking stuff....

Concerning the false church of Rome, you said...

Its christian to engage in goddess worship?

Its christian to place a curse on the true gospel?

Its christian to proclaim a false gospel?

 

If Rome preaches the correct gospel than to be consistent with that gospel you better be baptized into the Catholic Church as that is the very thing they teach to be consistent with their gospel. Oh yes, they make exceptions to THE RULE based upon inability or ignorance but there is none on this forum who are without ability or in ignorance. So, if you believe Rome teaches the true gospel be consistent and join that church.

On the other hand, if Rome preaches "another gospel" then she is "accursed" and no one in their right mind will argue that an "accursed" church is "Christian." - period - end of story.

 

No. You are apply what Paul said to your understanding of the Gospel.

 

Nobody is claiming that every single catholic is lost. I'm sure some have stumbled upon saving faith. And some might even stay in the cult even after being born again.

We are only speaking of the institution known as the Catholic Church of Rome.

The Catholic chaticism, the Council of Trent, the catholic ensyclopedia, and various other councils etc etc all condemn the Catholic Church of Rome as being heretical and a false cult.

They are NOT part of the "Church" worldwide, just like the JW's and Mormons aren't.

 

You just don't get it do you!! That is exactly what you are doing as well! There is no middle ground! You are either beleiving in the true gospel or you are believing in the false gospel - there are no other options.

So yes, I believe the scriptures teach that justification before God is without works and obviously must be as God justifies the "UNGODLY" not the godly. This forces justification according to CHRIST'S WORKS as the "ungodly" have no works that justify them before God as they are "UNGODLY." The competitive position on justificaiton is that God justifies the "godly" at the Great White Seat Judgement according to YOUR WORKS.

Of course I believe that I am teaching the Scriptural gospel and I go to great lengths to prove it and to disprove the gospel you are espousing. Only an idiot would claim to espouse a gospel that Paul condemns!

 

You're going to have to prove that point.

Why? James 5:13-16

Its certainly based on scripture.

First mistake. There are no idols in Catholic Church. There a statue dipictions of the saints. And why get rid of candles in the church? Leviticus

and why say this?

Are you suggesting that Mary did not give birth to the fulness of Jesus Christ but was some weird amalgamation that neither is fully God or fully man? Or are you saying we shouldn't respect the mother of Jesus Christ. That maybe we should treat her like a prostitute? Is that better?

Why? The definition of vicar from its latin roots Vicarus is

Yet the scriptures tell us that

 

Alive....would you please expound on you usage of "goddness worship" or do you mean Godless? In that case why is a Catholic a Godless worshiper?

Oh I get it..... "Goddess" like as in Mary..... Never Mind. I will have to look into that.


I googled this statement from a Catholic document:

An honest, careful study of the pagan goddess cults will reveal that, apart from a few externals (i.e., the goddess may be considered a virgin and/or mother), they have nothing in common with the Catholic relationship to Mary. The Catholic relationship to Mary cannot compare to the profane, debauched worship once offered to goddesses. The goddess Gaia (Mother Earth) is a symbol that stands for everything that goes against what Mary would have us to believe. Mary would not have us worship the earth, Mary would not have us exalt the sensual pleasure of sex outside of marriage, Mary would not have us profaning the name of her Son Jesus. Mary is not into watering down her Son's message with other religions. Mary is about one thing and one thing only - her Son Jesus.

...every single Roman Catholic I have ever known has regarded Mary as a woman of spotless character, a virgin, one that was totally dedicated to God and virtue - not any of these attributes fit the pagan goddess Semiramis! Her lifestyle was the very opposite.

 

No. They don't believe Mary is a goddess. and as far as images consider the Catachism

And as far as Mary

No. And Catholics do not.

No and catholics do not.

 

Not one of those documents have condemned the Catholic church.

 

I believe the true gospel as preached by the apostles and recorded in scripture. I wonder if you do. In order to have a workable debate on Justification whether its by works or not, or Salvation in the same context we need to define the terms that we mean and how its used. For instance.

Salvation how do you define it? Do you define it as

? And what does that entail? How about justification? Do you define it as

? Or do you have a different definition?

 

Say what?

 

I guess Jedi Knight didn't like my suggestion that he define "cult." Over time I have observed that whatever you think a cult is, it is not something you belong to. It is always something someone else belongs to. I have never seen anyone admit to belonging to a cult.

 

Thinkingstuff...

I dont think Dr Walter has anything against candles per'se.

Its the Catholic view of candles as a sort a of magic that is the problem.

In many Catholic Churchs they have a bunch of candles that have been *blessed* by a *priest*

If a catholic has a loved one in a dire health situation they are encouraged to go and light a candle and it will help your prayer in *magically* getting them well, and they wont die.

It is commom for these candles to have a big statue of *Mary* behind them all...subtley incorperating catholic goddess worship in with the *magic* candle lighting.

! was a catholic for 24 years before finally finding Christ. I saw this stuff 1st hand mutitudes of times.

God have mercy

 

You have no concept of the true gospel! None - nada - zilch! We have already had these defintion debates and you believe that ulitmately YOUR WORKS at the judgement seat establish heaven or hell. If you are a saved person (and you might well be) you are enshrined in ignorance of the gospel.

"Salvation" is a general term that takes in everything from Election in eternity past to glorified and rewarded eternal condition in heaven in the future. It involvse the past tense, present tense and future tense of salvation which all who believe in works for salvation totally confuse with each other.

"Justification" of THE UNGODLY by definition denies "good" works are involved or else it would be justificaiton of the GODLY as by definition includes "good" works.

I am not arguing with you any more. You know how I define terms as I have defined them just like this over and over to you. You simply want to argue - period - you are not interested in the truth - you are interested in perpetuating your heresies.

 

Lord have mercy, indeed!

I'm afraid you weren't much of Catholic if you believe all the hogwash you just wrote. Good grief!!

 

The term "cult" has gone through a process of change from one sense to another because of changed usage. Today, it is commonly used among Christians as a negative description of a false religion or church. To say something that claims to be a Christian church is a "cult" is a common way to deny it is Christian in the sense of New Testament teaching and in particular to essential New Testament doctrines. In that sense Rome is a cult (Gal. 1:8-9).

 

Cult......