Roman Catholicism

Why are former Catholics so angry? Why do they delight so much in bashing the Catholic church?

Obviously, they think they have found the err in their ways and converted to a Baptist church. Great! Move on with your life and let the ignorant Catholics be.
Let and let live. Can't we just get along?

 

The motivation to convert Catholics, Mormons, JWS, etc is the same.

We share the light with ALL !

I even share differences of POV with people on THIS board and why not. I enjoy sharing and so do they! I do not go after them in vengence saying "HEY stop sharing views that I don't already agree with -- just leave me in the dark on that topic"!

And indeed- why would I EVER do that?!!

 

Actually the "normal rule" has been that they ARE allowed IF they will state up front that they ARE Catholic!

There was a problem for a while where they would try to come in "disguised".

Then there was a window of time where new applicants were shut out for a while do the volume of violations of rule - 1 above.

Now I don't know what the policy is but some are still around and I am glad of it.

 

I agree with you for the most part.

Catholics consider Lutherans to be very, very theologically close to themselves (Catholics). So where does that leave your theory that Baptists only differ from Lutherans on "some" points?

When you say "Biblically sound" are you referring to the Church as it was in the past when knowledge of the Bible was not stressed? I might let you know that I attend a Bible study class at my parish on Wednesday evenings August-May. We cover the Bible cover to cover in 5 year cycles.

The Catholic church does not spoon feed their people. If you're only willing to go to Mass and sit, stand, sit, stand, kneel, stand, kneel, and sit in that order, then you're going to get lost. Catholics have to be proactive in their faith. To the day I die, I'll still be learning about Christianity and the Catholic church.

 

When I speak face to face with a Catholic and talk about doctrine, I see us worlds apart and I can never see the church becoming one again. My Catholic friends study more about the church and know very little Bible. I’m not saying all are like this. I can only share stories of the ones I know.

Here are just a few things….


Catholics have priest

I see in the Bible the priesthood of the Saints.

Catholics look to Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and authority of the Church and the Pope.

I believe in Sola Scriptura.


Catholics have two types of sin. Mortal and Venial

Mortal sin destroys the sanctifying grace of God within the individual and necessitates forgiveness through a sacrament of reconciliation

A Venial sin is a sin that either is not serious or grave, or does not involve full knowledge or complete consent.

I understand the Bible as saying that apart from the saving grace of God, even the least serious sin will send a person to hell


Catholics believe that Mary “was totally preserved from the stain of original sin and she remained pure from all personal sin throughout her life”

I only believe Mary should be honored as a godly woman who was faithful to God.

Purgatory for Catholics

I can’t find purgatory in the Bible

Catholics often do their praying from a book and/or chanting the same over and over.

I simply tell God what is on my heart.


Please do not take this as bashing Catholics. Baptist seem to do this a lot nowadays ..maybe to much. There are many things i do not agree with in the RCC but I do not blaim the RCC for everything. The split was 100s of years ago, and some still act as if we are living in those days.

But still, we are miles apart. It is very hard to talk with a RCC because the ones I talk to, do not know their Bible very well. What they do, is go ask their priest if what I said is true or not and never look it up on their own. Even if I pull out my Bible and show them a verse, they still went to check with "father so and so" before they answer.

When I look at all the tradition and how much time goes into following this tradition, for me it is easy to see why they don't know their Bible very well. The focus (as it seems to this outsider) is on the Church more so...way more so.. then The Word.


In Christ..James

 

Lutherans will have theological differences with Baptists over obvious issues like baptism, the "Real Presence" in the Lord Supper, and the use of liturgy in worship services. But on the crucial issues related to salvation - that it is by grace alone, through faith alone, on account of Christ alone, and not of our works - Baptists and Lutherans are in agreement. While secondary issues are not unimportant, Baptists and Lutherans will agree that this issue of salvation, and how one becomes right with God, is of critical importance.

As you know, not all churches and denominations still hold to a high view of Scripture as the Word of God, including many Lutherans. So when I say that the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod is "Biblically sound" I am referring to the fact that, like most Baptists, the LCMS still has a high view of Scripture. In other words, the LCMS remains a theologically conservative Lutheran denomination where the Word of God is still the basis of what they practice and teach.

I am glad to hear that you are involved in Bible study. That is always a good thing because the Word of God is the means through which the Spirit of God speaks to our hearts and builds our faith. As a former Roman Catholic myself, I would only say that you would also do well to hold the doctrines you have been taught to the lens of Scripture.

 

same

Follow Me Home,

I've never met any former Catholics whom I would categorize as "angry" at the Catholic Church...meaning as a general rule. I'm certainly not.

However, I can agree that I, and many other ex-Catholics, are angry about some specific things that the Catholic Church is guilty of.

I am somewhat angry that I was a part of a professing "christian" organisation for 24 years and they never once presented gospel of Jesus Christ to me.

I, and many other christians, are angered to an extent when we see idolatry being endorsed by a professing "christian" church.

I, and many other christians, are angered to an extent when we see goddess worship being directed towards our Lords earthly mother.

etc etc etc.

We are angered by things of that nature because we know from the testimony of the scriptures that Almighty God is angered by those things.

We take after our Father.

But I never post..(or speak, if its a "flesh and blood" conversation)..in anger when interacting with Catholics because as I said before, I see you all as the victims of the Catholic Church, not the ones reposible for these atrocities.

I've never met anyone in 25 years as a christian who "delights" in speaking the truth about the Catholic Church. I have never once taken "delight" in it, and have never know of anyone else taking "delight" in it.

It breaks our heart.

Huh?? I have fellowshipped in a couple of Baptist fellowhips since being converted...and sometimes visit some friends Baptist fellowship now...but the vast majority of my christian fellowship has been in non-denominational, pentecostal, or charismatic fellwoships.

In many ways, yes. I work with some Catholics and we get along just fine. I have had neighbors who were Catholics and we got along fine. I try to love everybody, including Catholics.

But...when God opens the door, I MUST share the truth with Catholics. God compels me to. I can do nothing else. The scripture tells us...

...so, when Christ compells me to speak the truth in love, I speak.

I have no choice.

God bless,

Mike

 

I have a book that is three inches thick that contains the Scripture that is referenced in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I don't know how long you've been away from the Catholic Church, but JPII commissioned the compilation of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. At the bottom of each page, is the scripture reference to support the teachings on that page.

I don't think any halfway intelligent Catholic is going to accept anything from the Catechism with out knowing how it is derived from the Bible. Everything in the Catechism is taken from the Bible. The same is true all other practices in the Catholic church. Any differences come down to interpretation. Interpretation is just that, interpretation. What you read and understand may not be the same thing I understand although we've read the same thing. It's very simple.

 

Dear Mike,

Thank you for your response, BUT it has crossed my mind....rightly or wrongly. Some of the posts can and have been inflammatory. I have been known to be wrong once or twice every 10 minutes or so. Even so I do love the BB and enjoy the posters here on it.:flower:

 

At Sunday Mass in every Catholic church, there are two scripture readings, one from the OT and one from the NT. The priest or deacon reads the Gospel. The homily is focused around the Gospel reading for that day. At daily Mass, there is a scripture reading from the OT and a Gospel reading. If you attend Mass everyday for three years, you will have had the entire Bible read to you and explain to you in the Homily.

I'm not sure I know what you're referring to.

Catholics do not worship Mary, we admire her. We pray to Mary to be an intercessor just as you would be if you prayed for me. When we pray to Mary, we are asking her to pray for us to God.

I will openly admit that the Catholic church has not done a good job in educating its followers in the faith and scripture in the past. That is changing. That doesn't mean that what the Church does and teaches is wrong. It just means that its followers do not understnad why. As in everything else in life, if it doesn't make sense to you, you should demand an answer until you are satisfied. That is what I have done as a Catholic. I read and read and ask questions. I read the Bible and I read the writings of apologists who explain the scriptures in a way that I, as an accountant, can understand. I can read a scripture in the Bible and not understand the full meaning as taken in context with all other scripture. When you read Revelations for the first time, did you understand it? I am not a theologian and am not qualified to interpret the Bible as a whole.

 

I do not understand the lack of comprehension to this accusation either. The liturgical calender follows the life and teachings of Our Saviour through the whole year and as you have pointed out the Mass is focused on OT and NT readings. Again the sermon defines the Gospel at each Sunday Mass. If you attend daily Mass you get readings from both Testaments.

I agree with you Follow Me Home about the paucity of Catechism teaching whilst I was growing up. It sort of went very bizzare by the 1970's.That is a human failing.

 

My comments regarding Catholics being banned on this site came from rumors I've heard on a Catholic Forum. In my mind, it would be counter-productive to ban any one religion because the purpose of this forum is to discuss religion, all religions in addition to Baptist. The Catholic Forum I'm referring to has a big problem with Muslims. On an individual basis, they are banned more than any other religio

 

I have seen this "anger" or whatever you want to call it myself. From time to time the teachings come up in your open, free to reply at anytime, Sunday School Classes. It is a fact that those they have come from the RCC, do speak with anger about it now. Some even get red in the face. I get the idea that they do not like it for they feel is if they were "tricked"..mislead whatever...for years. And their anger is still there because they see the RCC still doing the same today.

I'm not sure if this was meant to prove that Catholics study the Bible, but I see it as saying they still as a whole, do not. In every Baptist or Baptist type church that I have been in, the pastor nearly every week compels us to GET INTO THE WORD on our own. We are also told to make sure he (the pastor) stays true to the Word. The reason....salvation is a relationship between me and my heavely Father. I talk to HIM when I pray. He talks to me when I read His Word. It is a love relationship. He loved me, before I loved Him. Therefore, it is this love that makes me worship Him, pray to Him, and read His Word. Though Church is good for followship, it can never replace my relationship with my God. Its good to talk about doctrine with other believers, yet Gods Word is the end of the matter. If my pastor does not lineup with Gods Word, I tell him. So far there have been no biggies and I pray there never is.

Catholics teach that Mary remained a virgin throughout her life. They also believe that at the end of her life she “was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 966). Catholics refer to Mary as “the Holy Mother of God” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 975). They view her as a comediator of God’s grace and as a collaborator with the salvation of Jesus her Son (Catechism of the Catholic Church, nos. 510, 973). According to Pope Paul VI, “The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 971).

In my relationship with God, I understand that, unlike Catholic teaching, the Bible does not teach that Mary remained a virgin throughout her life...she indeed had other children

Ps. 69 8
I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.

Matt 12:46
While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

Matt 28:10
Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.

Mark 3:31
There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.

John 7:3
His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest

Nor does the Bible indicate that Mary was conceived without original sin or that she was bodily ascended into heaven

Luke 1:47
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

The Bible does not refer to Mary as the Holy Mother of God. The offering of adoration and prayers to Mary (and to other dead saints) is both unscriptural and an act unacceptable to God. Where as, you can ask me to pray for you, for I too am a saint and I am alive.

Rev. 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

GOOD. This as you know is rare in the RCC. But it is becoming rare in all churches. This is why we now have the "name it claim it" false teaching....the KJVO semi-cult..and other full cults that have come around. The followers of these simply do not know Gods Word and have not held their leader/leaders in check with the Bible. But if you take the Bible only, you too will find many teachings of the RCC not in the Bible.


In Christ...James

 

Universality of the flesh nature

All of human kind is enslaved in lust of flesh, lust of eyes, and pride of life--Adam and Eve put it in our genes. Some folk call it: depravity. This fact is very evident in the religions of the world--also world history.


The real Jesus--the Christ--the Son of the Living God--is not of this world. "Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world."

Now what?

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

As Ryrie wrote in "Basic Theology": Everyone is a theologian. We all have views of God... those views may be from the Bible, some other person, or some other source. I doubt you will ever find anyone, anywhere that says they have no ideas or thoughts about God. Even atheists will likely tell you that they don't believe in God because if he existed he wouldn't do one thing or another, ie. "If God was real and loving then He wouldn't let little children suffer and die".

 

Others call it a cult. I'm kind and only call it a semi-cult.

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/kjvcult.htm

http://members.aol.com/pilgrimpub/questkjv.htm

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/kingjamesonlyism.htm

http://mcclare.blogspot.com/2006/04/my-personal-history-with-kjv-only-cult.html

http://www.nccg.org/nccm/KJV.html

http://www.dtl.org/versions/e-mails/kjv-only/2001.htm

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/kjvonly2.htm

http://www.starwire.com/CC/article/0,,PTID43667|CHID149582|CIID416826,00.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/959901/posts

 

It's not their 'use of a particular Bible' that makes them cultlike; it's their condemnation of others who do not use it, and their trashing of all other translations (even KJV variants!). If you do not use the KJV only, then they believe you are in error, and believing a false gospel, taught by these "new-age translations". That is cultlike.

 

This is a KJVO site, and he's not calling it a cult, but rather rebuffing the chagre as "mistrpresentations of those favoring modern texts".