Roman Catholicism

So, are you saying that Paul's letters 'trump' Jesus' words? And does that mean that James ("faith without works is dead") and Revelation 'trump' Paul?

 

He's right. The 40,000 number, even 30,00 isn't accurate. I've seen these lists and they often include apostate churches, cultic churches, cultic churches and just plain other religions, such as Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses.

All of that aside, would you please show me three denominations that hold to orthodoxy that disagree on any of the essential doctrines of Christianity?

 

...which are...?

 

Okay Only One Protestant Church is right!

Which One?

Mine? or Yours?

Jesus has only one truth. With respect to an exact Interpretation of each Individual Verse, there is only ONE TRUTH!

My Pastor will not agree on the same Interpretation of every single Verse that your Pastor does.

So if your Church and mine were the only ones in existence, who is teaching the ONE TRUTH in it's entirety, Verse for Verse?

Mine or Yours?

 

But since their are over a Million Protestant Churches in the United States and given that not any two Pastors will agree on the exact Interpretation of each and every verse. Then which ONE of the One Million is teaching the ONE TRUTH and all the others are in essence HERETICS?

Which One?

 

And us Protestants are Innocent?

Bob your comment is a screed and a smoke screen

Therefore please provide some links.

I demand names, dates and places of these popes, armies and battles. Sure, popes led armies and did battle, but to reduce 500 years of history to "all killing for purely religious reasons" and "consuming the former Roman Empire" is just making a polemic lie out of the truth of history.

We Protestants have committed our fair share of wartime atrocities:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War

If you look at other religions you will also find many wars fought in their names and using the most devout among them as warriors.
Even the supposed pacifist Bhuddists were used by the Chinese Tang emporer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaolin

Here's recent one example, though I'm not sure if the Armenians technically qualify as Catholics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

Anyways, the three popes and the wars they fought that you are alluding to is most likely from the
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Schism
This was purely political and had nothing to do with doctrinal issues.

Doh, how could I forget:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissol...the_Monasteries
When Henry VIII disolved the monastaries in England, all those monks and nuns who refused were summarily executed.
Yeah, those would be those nice Anglican Church people.

 

same

mojoala,

Here is some information that hopefully will shed some light on your confusion about these...ahem...30,000 :laugh: ...protestant denominations...

God bless,

Mike

http://www.justforcatholics.org/a86.htm

http://www.ntrmin.org/30000denominations.htm

http://www.ntrmin.org/30000denominationsrevisited.htm

 

same

Matt Black,

In response to my post here...

And you then said...

You obviously didnt read my entire post. If you will do that in the future it will help you to come across with a bit more credibility.

Did I not say this in my post?....

My post clearly atriculates what I am saying about progressive revelation. I never said anything like what you claimed I said.

It has nothing to do with Paul cancelling out Jesus. It has to do with the fact that it was the same God who WAS Jesus Christ, speaking later through Paul. And regarding new covenant church doctrine, much more voluminously and with much more clarity.

God bless,

Mike

 

:laugh:

:laugh: :laugh:

 

SMOKE SCREEN!

There is no confusion. That book was written in 1982. 24 years of Proliferation has substantially increased the number.

You are totally ignoring the fact that in the 90's the non-denominational movement started and is still proliferating to this day. Creating at least 1 "denominational of one" in every city. There are at least 30,000 non-denominational denominations outside of the mainstream denominations and their offshoots just inside the United States alone if only each city had just one.

My rinky dink town alone has 3. Of the 30 churches in my town, only two actually claim to be part of the same denomination. And that are the two Methodist churches.

Oops make that 4. My wife just informed me that another one just opened up in a mini strip mall down the road.

Please stop throwing up Smoke Screens to obscure the thruth.

 

If it was only 10000, that is 9999 too many.

 

same

mojoala,

His point remains completly true even now 24 years later.

The claims of that bozo who 1st came up with such lunacy are comically false

So what? That proves absolutly nothing, other than that true christianity continues to flourish.

Ha ha! :laugh: Utter nonsense. Complete rubbish.

My friend you are exhibiting the tendancies of one who has been brainwashed.

So what. That proves nothing other than that bible believing non-Catholic non-mainline liberal evangelical christianity is still flourishing.

Praise God! \o/

I have worshipped with many different fellowships with many different persuasions and points of emphasis during my many years as a born again christian. Pentecostal, Charismatic, "non-denominational", Southern Baptist, independant Baptist(not IFB), Church of Christ, Cambellite, Assemblies of God, etc etc etc. And in every single one of them I enjoyed sweet fellowship and love "in the Spirit" with my brothers and sisters in Christ. The name on the door meant nothing.

And in adition, I have been involved in many many many "joint" meetings and various endeavors of ministry with many different groups all working together with one another. ALL were brothers and sisters working together in unity. The names on the door of the various groups represented meant nothing.

And in all of these situations we all where of one mind and spoke the same thing regarding that which matters. The diety of Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit. Our understanding of the triune nature of God. The scriptures alone as truth source. Justification through faith alone. Jesus Christ is mans only hope for salvation. A future judgment. the literal new birth, etc etc

Praise God! He is blessing your area in a big way my friend.

I'm not.

YOU try opening your eyes to Gods truth regarding these things, and stop insulting our intelligence with these comical claims in your posts.

God bless,

Mike

PS...

By the way, when are you going to adress the proof that has been given concerning the factions, divisions, splits and disagreements that exist in the Catholic Church?

Some reason why you are ignoring those posts?

 

same

Caudia,

Reponding the the question of "which one is right", you said...

Sorry Claudia, but MINE is the correct denomination!

How can you miss it, you heretic!

Grrrrr!!!!!

Mike:thumbs: :laugh: raise:

 

The RC members keep arguing "Why don't we just toss out our Bible and agree on what our majesterium tells us"

And at other times they argue "Why don't we just go with the church that does not generate division and church split"

But the RCC is not the only church with leadership and the RCC is the one MOST guilty of generating division heresy, split and error as can be SEEN in their fabrications about "Purgatory, Mariolotry, prayers to the dead, magic water, magic powers for priests that are excommunicated, indulgences, division between sacred clergy and profane laity..."

So why do they think that appealing to their own ERRORS is an argument FOR their POV??!!

The PROBLEM that all other denominations HAVE in the first place is a measure of how CLOSE we all are to making the same dumb errors you find in the RCC! Their errors are just more massive and numerous BECAUSE they have had more time, power and control to MAKE them!

 

Mike,

In my childhood I used to hear that Heretics are JW, Mormons, Moonies, SDA, etc...
Even after my salvation I had such idea, but as time goes on, I realize that I could have saved a lot of time if I respected the Law and commandments from the beginning. Therefore I would distinguish SDA from others and trust that SDA can be right as long as they are born again first. The questions which we should ask ourselves are:
1) If anyone keeps the ten commandments, is that person Heretic?
If the others commit and violate the ten commandments, are they Orthodox? Whose idea is such discernment? Maybe Satan can be very happy with such discernment.

2) Which commandment among 10 commandments has Jesus repealed or rescinded? This may have been discussed in other thread.

3) Is God's criteria that one can be saved if the person ignore the 10 commandment? and SDA is therefore heretic because they are legalistic,and there is no salvation in SDA?

The legalistic approach may be wrong, but the obedience to God in any form is important.
I notice there are many anti-SDA's among the mainstream protestants, but they don't condemn Roman Catholic's paganism, idol worship, papacy, their persecution of true believers. When the True believers fought against Catholic paganism, where were they?

Calling SDA heretics just because they keep the commandments don't come from Holy Spirit, which I am very sure about. At least they didn't kill the people as Roman Catholic did by Crusade and Inquisition, and thru Proxy Wars. We must identify where is our main battlefield.

If anyone don't keep the commandments, they can be Heretics.
The questions are how to keep the commandments and there can be diverse opinions which can be discussed with Christian love.
This is my stance and I would recommend you to refrain from too much condemnation against Commandment-keepers.

 

same

Elyahu,

My post to Claudia....WAS....A....JOKE.

(my goodness didnt the 3 smiling/laughing guys make it clear?)

I got the impression that Claudia was sort of making a dig at those claiming there are all of these..(Carl Sagans voice here).."billions and billions and billions" of denominations by saying "Why, MINE of course" in response to the question of "which one is right".

So I was was playing along with the joke by saying "No...MINE is correct, you heretic! Grrrr!!!!"

See?

God bless,

Mike

 

Why should I worry about their faction, divisions, splits and disagreements? Why should I point out the mote in the Catholic's eyes when there is a Beam in Ours?

Barrett identifies seven major ecclesiastical “blocs” under which these 22,190 distinct denominations fall (Barrett, 14-15):

(1) Roman Catholicism = 223 = Interesting

(2) Protestant, = 8,196 = noncatholic
(3) Orthodox = 580 = noncatholic
(4) Non-White Indigenous = 10,956 = noncatholic
(5) Anglican = 240 denominations = noncatholic
(6) Marginal Protestant = 1,490 = noncatholic

(7) Catholic (Non-Roman) = 504 denominations = more interesting = What Catholics are not Roman? But for Argument's sake I will add 7 to 1.


So lets tally the numbers:

1 & 7 = 233 + 504 = 737

2,3,4,5, & 6 = 8,196 + 580 + 10,956 + 240 + 1,490 =
21,464

Catholic = 737 = mote
Non-Catholic = 21,464 = beam

And these numbers are from 1982.

Shoud I include non-denominationals added to the mixture during the 90's non-denominational movement?

as for answering svenson's claims. I had to do some googling.

It seems Svenson left out some pertinent facts.

Barrett lists 233 Catholic Denominations. How does he derive this figure? By saying that each country is a denomination of the Roman Catholic Church since One can only be Roman Catholic if your in Rome.

Hey, but read the article for yourself.

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a120.htm

Provided your not YELLOW!:laugh:

Me be thinking we each need to get a copy of Barret's Book and read it for ourselves. I am definitely going to buy one. You really need to buy it if you want to verify what Svenson claims....or to refute the other link.

 

how many dirty rotten "non-Baptist" churches out there. Thousands upon thousands of them along with the RCC as just another example -- OH if only they could bring themselves AND the RCC to the point where they could just be Baptist instead of being out there in that maze of non-Baptist churches - in confusion and splinterdom!

And dare I do that "same RC trick" with my own church? Why not!! "OH how many non-SDA churches there are out there sharing in that RCC-confusion of man-made-error and the devisive RCC."