Romans 5:1-2 and catholic soteriology

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Gunther, Jun 22, 2003.

  1. Gunther

    Gunther
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    NKJV
    1. Therefore having been justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

    2. through whom we also have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.

    According to Paul, once justification happens, so does peace. More specifically, that peace is more than just a ceasefire agreement. It is the joining of two opposing sides to one side, establishing a common bond.

    I started a thread on the issue of imputed versus infused righteousness that was not really given any attention. So here is another passage that I have been giving a lot of study.

    If justification is infused righteousness, then peace cannot be something that believers actually have. It can only be something we hope to attain eventually. This isn't what the text says though. It says that since we are justified, we HAVE peace. It is something I own as a believer.
     
  2. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber
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    Hi Gunther,

    You wrote, "If justification is infused righteousness, then peace cannot be something that believers actually have."

    Why not? As a Catholic and a student of Paul, I believe that when I become a Son of God, I really and truly become a Son of God, not that I'm simply called a Son of God because of some forensic legality. I believe that I come to partake in the divine nature (2 Pet 1:4) and thus am transformed on the inside by the love of God, thus growing in divine sonship through the process of sanctification. That's peace, brother!

    I know that I am no longer condemned as a mere creature/slave of God because I have died with Christ in baptism. My salvation is now an inheritance - not of my own works, lest I should boast - but as a gift of grace in Christ Jesus. Now, I no longer have to rely on my own power to be holy, for it is He who brings about my sanctification through I who have faith in Him.
     
  3. Gunther

    Gunther
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    1. Because your peace depends upon your justification. Look what Paul said. Therefore, having been justified... According to Paul, the justification is an event that has already happened. It is not something that is happening or is going to happen.

    This is a pillar difference between your faith (catholicism) and my faith (Christianity). Frankly, we are not "brothers". We are only "brothers" in the sense that we all come from one blood, namely Adam of Eden.

    2. This is precisely where you go wrong. Paul was a lawyer. He clearly understood the law. He argues near exhaustively that righteousness is put toward the account of the believing sinner. Justification by definition is a forensic act. It is catholic dogma that has clouded your understanding on this matter.

    3. I agree with this point. You simply arrive at it differently inspite of a fundamental error. However, that is not the peace Paul is talking about.

    He is not talking about having quietness of your soul. That is true and that happens as one grows in sanctification.

    The peace he is talking about though is connected with justification. If we disagree on justification, we will disagree on what peace Paul is talking about.

    4. I would like to see the Scriptural basis for this statement.

    5. This is another true statement. However, it is your excess baggage that is endangering a proper view of this truth.

    6. I think I knew what you meant here. You are relying on it though. You are trusting your own ability to keep you from walking away from salvation and/or committing certain sins that would nullify salvation.
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    You are correct.

    John 14 Christ tells us "PEACE I give to you MY Peace I leave with you NOT as the World Gives".

    In Gal 5:20-22 we find the Fruit of the Spirit given to ALL the saved starts with "Love Joy Peace.."

    It is the gift of instant Justification - at the moment of salvation - the very instant we are born-again.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     

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