Romans 7:14-25

laugh laugh laugh laugh. You and your silly smileys and the mocking you do is loving?

Answer the question.

Here it is again:

This is how a Christian and Calvinist discussion goes:

Christian: Hear the message, believe, and be saved.
Calvinists: They cannot believe until after they are saved.
Christian: Cornelius believed in God before he heard the message that saves.
Calvinists: Cornelius believed because he was already saved, and he was already saved before he heard the message.
Christian: But it is called the message that saves.
Calvinists: They were saved before they heard the message, and even before the creation of the world.
Christian: Then why does God tell us to repent before we perish?
Calvinist:

What say you Calvinist? What is your next false answer?

 

If they do not repent and believe..they will perish:thumbs:

 

According to Calvinists, ONLY THOSE ALREADY SAVED CAN REPENT, SO ANSWER HOW THEN COULD THEY PERISH? God would not tell people to repent our perish if He made them incapable of repenting!

 

Excellent point Moriah.:thumbs:

 

Thank you so much for blessing me with this encouragement.

 

this is what we believe

 

I know what you believe, and it is false.

 

You do not know what you do not know....and you cannot answer anything scripturally.......It seems as if you are part of this little group who all are sitting under a false teacher....Do you go to the same church as these others?
Why do you not answer? I think we see what might be happening here....
Post your church website....so we can see how the sinless believe:thumbs::thumbs:

 

This kind of post shows you have no clue what you are talking about.
It does not even make any sense...I explained that to you last week.

 

Iconoclast,
You are being deceitful here when you post your beliefs AND LEAVE OUT THE CALVINISTS PARTS. You were speaking of the saved, but you left out the part about how you believe you were saved, and that is by being born first BEFORE YOU BELIEVED. None of us here who know the Truth falls for your tactics.

 

No...you just do not understand it when you see it;
Chapter 14: Of Saving Faith
1._____ The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls, is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts, and is ordinarily wrought by the ministry of the Word; by which also, and by the administration of baptism and the Lord's supper, prayer, and other means appointed of God, it is increased and strengthened. ( 2 Corinthians 4:13; Ephesians 2:8; Romans 10:14, 17; Luke 17:5; 1 Peter 2:2; Acts 20:32 )
2._____ By this faith a Christian believeth to be true whatsoever is revealed in the Word for the authority of God himself, and also apprehendeth an excellency therein above all other writings and all things in the world, as it bears forth the glory of God in his attributes, the excellency of Christ in his nature and offices, and the power and fullness of the Holy Spirit in his workings and operations: and so is enabled to cast his soul upon the truth thus believed; and also acteth differently upon that which each particular passage thereof containeth; yielding obedience to the commands, trembling at the threatenings, and embracing the promises of God for this life and that which is to come; but the principal acts of saving faith have immediate relation to Christ, accepting, receiving, and resting upon him alone for justification, sanctification, and eternal life, by virtue of the covenant of grace.
( Acts 24:14; Psalms 27:7-10; Psalms 119:72; 2 Timothy 1:12; John 14:14; Isaiah 66:2; Hebrews 11:13; John 1:12; Acts 16:31; Galatians 2:20; Acts 15:11 )

3._____ This faith, although it be different in degrees, and may be weak or strong, yet it is in the least degree of it different in the kind or nature of it, as is all other saving grace, from the faith and common grace of temporary believers; and therefore, though it may be many times assailed and weakened, yet it gets the victory, growing up in many to the attainment of a full assurance through Christ, who is both the author and finisher of our faith.
( Hebrews 5:13, 14; Matthew 6:30; Romans 4:19, 20; 2 Peter 1:1; Ephesians 6:16; 1 John 5:4, 5; Hebrews 6:11, 12; Colossians 2:2; Hebrews 12:2 )

 

Chapter 10: Of Effectual Calling
1._____ Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, he is pleased in his appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God; taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.
( Romans 8:30; Romans 11:7; Ephesians 1:10, 11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 14; Ephesians 2:1-6; Acts 26:18; Ephesians 1:17, 18; Ezekiel 36:26; Deuteronomy 30:6; Ezekiel 36:27; Ephesians 1:19; Psalm 110:3; Song of Solomon 1:4 )
2._____ This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man, nor from any power or agency in the creature, being wholly passive therein, being dead in sins and trespasses, until being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit; he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it, and that by no less power than that which raised up Christ from the dead.
( 2 Timothy 1:9; Ephesians 2:8; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 2:5; John 5:25; Ephesians 1:19, 20 )

3._____ Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )

4._____ Others not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet not being effectually drawn by the Father, they neither will nor can truly come to Christ, and therefore cannot be saved: much less can men that receive not the Christian religion be saved; be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature and the law of that religion they do profess.
( Matthew 22:14; Matthew 13:20, 21; Hebrews 6:4, 5; John 6:44, 45, 65; 1 John 2:24, 25; Acts 4:12; John 4:22; John 17:3 )

...............................................

 

Which doesn't include you which is why he is giving you truth now.

 

Iconoclast and all Calvinists trade the truth of God for a lie. They believe in man's assumptions.

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

As I said earlier.....new birth is required to understand the truth of God...

Come back when you can work through the last two posts...and be prepared to discuss it biblically...your ungodly accuasations are getting old and make you sound as one to be pitied...maybe consider finding a church that believes the scripture...because the "teaching" and ideas you are getting now....are not getting it done.

 

I see you have put some time and thought to your argument here. For those that see this as a saved man, there will be no changing of your minds and for those of us that see this as a lost man, there is no changing of our minds. It's not that we have different facts, but rather its how those facts are interpreted.
It always come down to, sinless perfection versus Christians still continue in sin. I, as many like my self, don't believe it is impossible for us to be able to sin after being born again, but we just don't live in sin. Sin is not a way of life for the believer.

Just for the record, I believe Romans 7 is a lost man still trying to please God by keeping the law, but failing. Even lost people delight in the Law of God, those were the ones Paul dealt with on a continual basis and those would be the ones Paul was trying to bring to faith and not works by the law.
The present tense is present tense because it is speaking of a carnal man sold unto sin, in other words he is lost. Lost men are still in their sin and have not yet been bought by the blood of Christ. That is historical present tense and fits in well with the past tense of 7:7-13.
Just as Paul contrasts one thing to another continually, here he is contrasting a saved man (chapters 6 and 8) to a lost man (chapter 7).

Paul has already shown us where he is going with his argument in 7:1-6.
7:4 is about chapter 6. present tense.
7:5 is about 7:7-25. past tense.
7:6 is about chapter 8. present tense.

 

Paul was speaking of himself before Jesus saved him. The people who think Paul was speaking of himself after Jesus saved him they are the Calvinists.

If Calvinists admit that Paul was speaking of himself BEFORE Jesus saved him, then it destroys their Calvinist beliefs, it destroys their Calvinist beliefs because Paul said he wanted to do good. As you probably know, Calvinists believe no one can even want to do good before they are saved.

Calvinists are now forced to admit people ARE capable of doing good before they become a Christian. Calvinists now claim they can do good before they are a Christian because they were really saved before the creation of the world. Their beliefs are not stable, to say the least.

 

Everything you falsely accuse me of, it is what you are guilty of doing. I do not think that you should be embarrassed; rather, you should humble yourself and repent for following a false religion.
There is no way you can give a scriptural, biblical answer to your false beliefs, because they are beliefs not stated in the Bible. No amount of Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic that you can learn that will make one bit of difference to help you in your life and doctrine of error. No amount of English classes you take will help you. There is no seminary school either.

Calvinist beliefs are NOWHERE in the scriptures, it is not even implied. God simply and plainly gives us the truth, but some men prefer Calvinists ASSUMPTIONS. It is the work of Satan that you have been ensnared to do. You help cause confusion to those who are not as knowledgeable. I will continue to explain the scriptures and correct Calvinists and all those who teach falseness. For Satan takes away what is sown when anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. I love explaining God’s truth. I love correcting, refuting, rebuking and teaching the truth.