Featured Romans 7:14 - Saved or Lost man?

Do not sin. :tonofbricks:

 

Your question is non responsive to my quote so it requires no response except this one.

 

That is simply a denial of the position without giving any evidence or Biblical justification for it. Demonstrate through Scriptures why you have a valid reason.

Furthermore, if you believe you only have one nature, the new nature, logic would dictate that:
1. You must be sinless.
2. We know that is not true. Therefore any sin you commit must be attributed to the new nature which is from God. Do you always attribute sin to God?
3. Your position is a denial of the depravity or the sinfulness of mankind.

 

I've given you multiple passages that prove the concept. You blather on spouting the equivalent of "No no no no no."

You give no contextual proof, no exegesis, no supporting evidence. Just "Paul was not ... " "Paul did not ... "" Paul said not ... " That's not proof. That's denial.

Then you stick your fingers in your spiritual ears going "Nahnahnahnahnahnahnah" So be it.

 

I already dealt with it from scripture. Let me direct you back through what I wrote prior.

Also to sugest that one must be sinless if they do not have a sin nature disregards Adam who had no sin nature and yet sinned.

 

I gave the scriptural evidence. I cannot help it if you cannt hear it. :smilewinkgrin:
Paul could not be speaking of himself as a believer and still serve God.

 

It is a total red herring, often used by those Arminians who believe they are born "innocent," can attain sinless perfection, and lose their salvation somewhere along the way.
Adam was born in innocence to be sure. But you weren't. And if you are born again then God has put His Spirit in you. You have God's Spirit residing in you. The same cannot be said of Adam. Adam rebelled strictly of his own accord.
If you do not have an old nature, the "Adamic nature," then sin must be attributed to the only other nature that resides in you, the nature of God, the Holy Spirit. What monstrous thing is it to attribute your sin to God. But that is the logical consequence of denying the depravity of man, which you are doing.

 

You make my point. I said in other places that the idea that we have two natures is an excuse for our sin. The truth is we like Adam choose to sin on our own. Adam did it without a sin nature and after salvation so do we. Our depravity is totally our own not what another did. Old tyhings have passed away and ALL things have become new. We are overcomers. Yes we are born dead in sin, but we choose to carry our sinfullness.
So Paul is not speaking of himself as a believer because if he was he would be disqualified to teach, preach, or serve in any capacity. Paul is speaking a a religious lost person using himself because he knows what it is like to try and serve the law.

 

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
--We will give account of what we do "whether it is good or bad." We are responsible for all of our decisions. The Holy Spirit makes no bad decisions. If the Holy Spirit does not sin or make bad decisions, the only thing left is you, that is, your old nature. Adam wasn't born with one; he was created. Apples and oranges.
We are speaking of the nature of man.

Don't take scripture out of context. Learn what it means first. In context it means in the church at Corinth (which was divisive) it didn't matter what background they had (Jew or Gentile, rich or poor, etc.), the past (old things) have passed away because the "new" (we as new creatures in Christ) all start on a level playing field no matter what our background is.
Now that you know the meaning of the verse you don't have to use it as a proof-text and take it out of context any more.

You are only an overcomer when and if you overcome.
That means you have to apply Biblical principles to your life in order to be one. You can't sit home all day in your rocking chair hoping to overcome. It doesn't work that way. It is not automatic. You must choose to overcome; you must choose to crucify yourself; to deny yourself; to die to self. Paul said "I die daily." Was he deceived?

This is your opinion with no basis in fact. Consider what Paul said at the end of his testimony:

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
--If Paul is unsaved how could he say: "I thank God through Jesus Christ my Lord..."

 

DHK

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she did not.

so what...that does not change what the verse means. it is not just the old slate is wiped clean...it means they are new creations in Christ just like she used it. To dismiss it because of one aspect of the verses is false.

 

Yes she did. That is why I took the time to explain the context.

I agree that the principle can be found elsewhere in the Bible. My point was that we should not abuse scripture. That is not what that particular scripture was teaching, as so many think.
Either way, it does not give license to any one to deny the existence of the old man, and thus deny the depravity of man. To believe in the eradication of the old nature is a holiness doctrine, and among Baptists a rather novel doctrine. It is amazing to me what Baptists are turning to these days.

 

No one is denying the old man. What is being denied is that after we are saved we have an old nature. Old man and old nature are not the same. The old nature teaching is an excuse to deny one total responibiity for sin.

Paul could not have written what he did if he was practicing sin nor could he be serving God.
At salvation we become a new creation, old things pass away and all things become new. Not some things become new. In the passage in question Paul is NOT saying that this was him while saved. He is using himself trying to show what it is like for an unsaved person who is very religious. The fight with the flesh, an they lose. The very thing they want to do they do not and the thing they do not want to do they do. There mind is willing but their flesh is not. They are trapped in this body of sin and cry who will deliver me from this? In chapter 8 he explains how to be set free from that trap.

 

the flesh/old nature was dealt with by the Cross, and once saved we can NOW have the means to daily keep it crucified to us, but the truth is that God Himself keeps us still with that nature, and we will have it purged when glorification happens!

 

The flesh/old nature was NOT what was made new, as God does not change that, but will destroy that aspect of us when glorified!

Our spirit was made anew, that aspect of us that died in the fall of adam!