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Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by C.S. Murphy, Apr 13, 2004.
What are the requirements for romans 8:28 to work? What are it's limitations? Any thoughts
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
All things work together for good to them that love God --not those who proclaim another gospel and another Jesus. Not those who do not belong to God. Not those who source divination and false doctrine as a truth.
That is not loving God, according to the Word of God.
2 Cor 11: 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Loving God and belonging to Him is the parameter for all things to work together for good.
John 14: 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments....23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Micah 6:8 He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
All thingswork out for the good(does not mean all things are good in and of themselves), to them that love God for God's people, those who actually are His, not those of 'another' gospel.called according to his purpose, God's purposes will be done in our lives, even when it does not look good and is painful, He will work it for good, and will accomplish His purposes.
Just my thoughts
You have forgotten to address the other 2 componants of this question. All you answered was that the promise does not benefit the ungodly which is true. What about the godly who are in a circumstance instigated by the ungodly, does this not now apply to their good, the godly that is? Also the big one you forgot to mention was the God componant, He is always working for our good and I believe that in an instance where the ungodly are planning and scheming our God is definately there seeking to turn it for our good.
Murph "You have forgotten to address the other 2 componants of this question. All you answered was that the promise does not benefit the ungodly which is true. What about the godly who are in a circumstance instigated by the ungodly, does this not now apply to their good, the godly that is? Also the big one you forgot to mention was the God componant, He is always working for our good and I believe that in an instance where the ungodly are planning and scheming our God is definately there seeking to turn it for our good."
No I didn't actually forget the God component. It goes hand in hand...all...means all circumstances that come into our lives, regardless of who instigates the circumstances....count it all joy the fiery trials, all will suffer persecution and so on.
That is far different than determining to willfully sin and willfully disregard God given mandates. That is two separate issues. However, even when we disobey, if we repent, we have forgiveness, and those things can and are still used for His honor and glory...and can be for our good. Just as His chastisement towards us when we deliberately disobey Him, works together for good.
I never eliminated the God factor. Nothing will work together good to them that love Him...without Him.
Hey C.S. Murphy,
do you have a KJ Bible commentary?It has an excellant entry on Romans 8:28.
Short answer is God is in control,He has a plan that will work to the beleiver's ultimate good even if the beleiver does'nt understand what is going on around him/her at the moment.
One must be among "the called according to His purpose"- and nothing else.
Everything that happens to us is for His glory and our good (sanctification).
I wish you had stopped at the first quote I listed above "all means all" sadly I feel when you added you "but" to the situation you have taken God out of the picture. Your lower quote sounds very legalistic as it makes me feel that I must contantly walk in fear of taking a wrong turn and having God come down on me. You state that things "can be for our good" but I still believe that Romans 8:28 declares All things. Please narrow the answer to explaining how all things don't always work for our good, if that is what you are saying.
Without turning into a version debate, I will just state that the NASB has the best rendering of the greek here:
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
God doesn't merely fit the pieces together. He is actively working every event and action and cause in our life toward good.
Even in times of struggle and pain, God is moving us toward good.
MUrph "I wish you had stopped at the first quote I listed above "all means all" sadly I feel when you added you "but" to the situation you have taken God out of the picture. Your lower quote sounds very legalistic as it makes me feel that I must contantly walk in fear of taking a wrong turn and having God come down on me. You state that things "can be for our good" but I still believe that Romans 8:28 declares All things."
All things is all things Murph. The 'but' comment was part of the thought of consequences of deliberate sin and willful disobedience and not repenting. I wasn't saying All things don't work together for good...I was saying even when we mess up and disobey and sin....good does come from it...for those who Love God.
Nothing legalistic about it. Unless this is also legalistic.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
We are called to repent and turn from sin, not deliberately and willfully keep sinning, because all things work together for good... true Love of God is not being exhibited if a person continues in deliberate and willful disobedience to God's Word.
Not because of spiritual immaturity and lack of knowledge....determined and deliberate disobedience, with full knowledge of what sin is being done.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
And God's chastisement will take place in our lives...that has nothing to do with legalism...it is a Scriptural truth.
Chastisement from God can be a fearful thing if we have said we love Him and deliberately and defiantly disobey...The Scriptures record much on that.
Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Jesus said if we love Him we will keep His commandments. God will chastise as a Father to bring us back into obedience, because of His love for us....meaning even that disobedience will work together for good...but then you knew that. And consenquences to any sin we have committed, may have lasting and harsh effects in our lives...but we have the promise of full forgiveness because of Jesus Christ.
1 John 2:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
It's not about being perfect and thinking we won't fall, fail or sin...it's knowing that we will make mistakes but we have these promises. The difference is in keeping ourselves focused and desiring to obey Christ and live for Him and keep His Word, despite ourselves.
Every thought is to be brought into obedience as we grow in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Cor 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
Thanks, Murph, for bringing up one of my VERY favorite verses. I believe it at face value for exactly what it says in the KJV, of course.
No matter what we do of good or ill, no matter what triumphs we achieve or hardships we endure, God will have the final say, and it will be in accordance with His will, not ours.
God's last word is always "Good".
I disagree with that statement. I used to believe that when I was young. I did things which were against God's Word and I lived in fear that God would get me. I tried to walk a legalistic line and was fearful of falling off and being doomed to hell or cursed.
But that was before the time in my life God started to reveal to me & I began to see a glimpse of just how much God really, really loves me. And He is NOT out to get me. Oh, I've been chastised a few times in my life but looking back, I can see God's grace through all of it, even the chastisement and He never gave me any more than I could bear and even with the chastisement, it wasn't to GET me, it was to lead me gently back to Him and walking with Him. And even with the "chastisement" there was abounding love, grace, strength, and blessing. So, yeah, ALL things work together to those who love Him, but even more than that is my little paraphrase...
All things work together for good to those whom God Loves.
I assume this is an oversight. Nowhere does the Scripture even allude to this.
Tough pill to swallow sometimes.
DD, we love God because He first loved us, but that is not the topic of this thread.
You said that all things work together for good for those whom God loves.
Well, God loves the whole world.
Romans 8:28 doesn't say all things work together for good for unbelievers. As I said, I am sure it was an oversight.
It was an oversight indeed. I didn't mean to bare that much of my soul and personal relationship, experience, walk with the Lord, thoughts on the topic, personal application or interpretation.
On the other hand, since Romans 8:28 is true, perhaps someone who is lurking on the over 30 million page views will find something of value in what I posted.
[ April 14, 2004, 11:45 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]