Featured Romans 8:8

I didn't forget anything, this scripture says these persons were the servants of sin, but they obeyed the gospel from their heart. As a a result of obeying or believing the gospel they were made free from sin and became servants of righteousness.

This scripture utterly refutes Calvinism. It shows the unregenerate can obey the gospel, and that AFTER obeying the gospel they are made free from sin and become servants of righteousness.

You can deny all you want, but this scripture easily refutes Calvinism.

 

So let me understand, in our life as believers, when we are tempted or are "approaching" sin, we have no "personal" say so in rejecting that sin, we only reject it because the Spirit does it for us? Is that a correct observation?

 

There is no flaw in what I said, I am quoting scripture for what it says.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

This scripture is clear as day, Paul said these persons were servants of sin, but they have obeyed the gospel. It is upon obeying the gospel that they were made free of sin and became servants of righteousness.

You (and Calvinism) attempts to teach the exact opposite, you attempt to teach that a person is regenerated to become a servant to righteousness and then afterward you obey the gospel.

I've said it a hundred times and I will say it again, Calvinism teaches the EXACT OPPOSITE of what scriptures truly say. Take heed.

 

You remind me of what Harry S. Truman once said,

If you can't convince them, confuse them.

Well, let me say, I find nothing you say convincing at all.

I actually understand what you are saying, but I believe it is easily refuted. The day of Pentacost clearly shows your view wrong.

On the day of Pentacost, did God supernaturally regenerate the 3000 who were saved and give them the ability to understand the Galilaean language that Peter, the apostles, and the 120 disciples spoke in?

NO, that is not what happened at all. We are not told of any supernatural work performed on these 3000 unbelievers. NOTHING.

It was upon Peter, the apostles, and the 120 disciples that God poured out his Spirit and gave them the supernatural ability to instantly speak in I believe at least 16 different languages.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Again, God did not regenerate the unregenerate unbelievers at Pentacost, he performed a supernatural work on the believers only.

Now Peter, the apostles, and the disciples could easily speak to these Jews from many different nations in their native language.

Acts 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Some might try to argue that God supernaturally gave these Jews from many nations the ability to understand Galilaean, but the text clearly shows the gift was poured on believers only, and that the gift was to speak in a tongue or language not previously known.

Now, did these Jews from other nations need anything supernatural performed on them to understand the gospel that Peter, the apostles, and disciples were preaching? NO, they could understand the gospel JUST AS THEY WERE.

And we know these men were deeply convicted by Peter and the others' preaching and that over 3000 believed on Jesus that day.

We also know that none of these 3000 new believers received the Holy Spirit until AFTER they repented and believed on Jesus (because only believers are baptized).

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Now, you are a smart man, surely you recognize that Pentacost completely overthrows your Reformed view. It shows that unregnerate men can believe the gospel just as they are, and that when they believe they receive the Holy Spirit and are regenerated.

This does not deny the supernatural, because the gospel itself is a supernatural message from God, delivered by Spirit filled servants of his, just as is shown on the day of Pentacost.

Now, if you were a real Biblicist, you would give this argument of mine deep consideration, seeing it is based squarely on scripture. I did not twist or wrest anything, as there is absolutely no need to do so.

Think about it.

 

Right back to your nasty habit of calling those who disagree with you liars, or heretics, or some other name.

The very tactics that got you banned just a few days ago. How soon one forgets.

And I have never called myself a teacher or "doctor" or any other name, I have no desire for vain glory.

 

He defined what heretics are...he did not call anyone a heretic nor did he call anyone a liar.

 

You are just bearing false witness again.You cannot help yourself can you?
You come here and post as a trouble maker....trying to censor anyone who offers orthodox teaching.Even non cals have asked you to stop:wavey:get a clue Winman:thumbsup:

 

And I did not call anyone an idiot.

 

Are you suggesting that anyone who does not hold to the Calvinist view is not saved?

 

You appear offended....is there something you'd like to get off your chest that's troubling you? Are you harboring any deep seeded resentment that needs to be addressed?

 

Before the Bib answers you, please show me where he says 'Calvinist view '

 

Let's not be coy and play games with words. We all know what he means. This line of questioning is not helpful.

 

Nonsence.....anyone with eyes to see would know what your doing is pure entrapment. Its also slameful

 

Actually what anyone can see is that he is espousing Calvinist doctrine then saying that anyone who does not hold to it is a heretic. A heretic is anyone who is not saved. If he wants to avoid direct questions like mine then he should avoid such lambastic and unnecessary wording such as heretic. Just because he avoids calling it what it is does not remove him from the responsibility of his words. And defending him means you are willing to say the exact same thing.


Huh, in fact the very fact that you are accusing me of entrapment goes to show exactly what he is doing. And this is not the first time he has made such implications. If he is not speaking of Calvinism then maybe he can answer the question for himself and show how what he said is widely accepted by cals and non cals alike. If he cannot show that what he said is accepted by both cals and non cals then we have the answer to my question.

And that kind of posting needs to stop.

 

I have been accused of saying that a lost person needs to first be Christlike and forgiving of others before they can forgiven of their sins. I repeatedly reject that idea.

The obedience of the lost person - as a lost person - is repentance, confession, accepting the Gospel, accepting faith in Christ.

The obedience of the saved person includes what Paul calls obeying the Gospel and "keeping the commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19.

But as Romans 8:6-8 points out that obedience to the law of God is not possible for the lost person. For them the only obedience possible is repentance, confession and accepting faith in Christ,

Romans 10 points out that this "results in salvation".

And BOTH forms of obedience are made possible through the work of the Holy Spirit - who "Convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" - not just the saved.

in Christ,

Bob

 

How odd that we have only a sentence "snippet".

Here it is in complete sentences.

[FONT=&quot]Rom 8[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 because [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God;[/FONT][FONT=&quot] for it [/FONT][FONT=&quot]does not subject itself to the Law of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], for it [/FONT][FONT=&quot]is not even able to do so[/FONT][FONT=&quot],[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]

Those who claim they are not "able to subject themselves" to the Law of God - are claiming the position of the lost - "in the flesh".

However Romans 10 points out what the lost CAN do that "results in salvation". (And I think they can do it by the power of the Holy Spirit who "convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" - not just the born-again, not just the regenerate)

[FONT=&quot]Rom 10[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." [/FONT]




in Christ,

Bob