Romans 9

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Chowmah, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. Chowmah

    Chowmah
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    Is anyone else bothered by this chapter? Am i misreading what it says? Why bother reading and or doing anything thats written if our outcome has already been predetermined? Read it 5 times since last night hoping id see something i missed. I see what i saw the 1st time i read it. Someone please tell me ive missed something!
     
  2. Moriah

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    Please do not let Calvinists lead you astray. Which scripture do you start becoming confused? Most of the people who post here are Calvinists, or they believe in some form of it, whether they deny it or not.
     
    #2 Moriah, Mar 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2012
  3. Chowmah

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    Thanks for reply Moriah
    The whole chapter screams of predestination. That no matter what ya say, do, faith, or believe your destiny has already been decided. I dont have a clue what calvanist believe. I dont really care what any denominations believe. Ive always simply believed what was written. No song and dance. To me...chapter 9 is bankrupt:tonofbricks:. Unless im missing something.
     
  4. The Biblicist

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    What a joke you are! He didn't read any Calvinist or talk to any Calvinist. He simply read Romans 9 five times and concluded from just reading it what it appears to be saying! He is not having problems with Calvinists but with what Paul seems to be saying very clearly! His problem is with Paul not Calvin!
     
  5. Moriah

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    You ARE of the same beliefs as Calvinists. He DID read what you wrote. Are you blind?
     
  6. Moriah

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    The spirit of John Calvin is all over this place. Keep searching for the truth. God bless.
     
  7. Chowmah

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    Moriah
    Please! I did not read anything the biblicist wrote concerning chapter 9. I know Paul seems to be a double talker of sorts. Hard to understand. If theres something im not seeing please point it out
     
  8. The Biblicist

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    What a joke! Chowmah and I rarely agree on anything. Chowmah is of YOUR persuasion not mine! Chowmah is simply being HONEST with his reading of Romans 9. His problem is reading Paul not reading the Biblicist.

    You are calling Chowmah a liar and both Chowmah and I know he has not been influenced or reading me. He has simply read Paul in Romans 9 five times and telling everyone what it appears to say to him.
     
  9. Chowmah

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    Your quite a humorist yourself. You quote one liners out of romans claiming Paul is saying we need not keep the big ten. Which is not true

    ROMANS 2 [12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

    ROMANS 3 [27] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. [28] Therefore we conclude that a MAN IS JUSTIFIED BY FAITH WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW. [29] Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.

    I really dont want this sidetracked into a law thing discussion cause chapter 9is really bugging me
     
  10. The Biblicist

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    Chowmah, I congratulate you for just being honest with what you read. The chapter clearly and explicilty spells out that salvation is of the Lord. He will have mercy on whom he will have mercy and on whom he will he hardeneth and it is a GENTILE that he uses as the example of hardening. He is the potter that makes one pot to honor and another to dishonor but the clay he is using is FALLEN humanity and therefore He is perfectly just to make them as He chooses because they are already under just condemnation.
     
  11. Moriah

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    God knows who will believe even before they are born, before the creation of the world, God knew who would believe in His Son. Why does that cause you to feel what is the use in accepting God or not?
     
  12. The Biblicist

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    I didn't quote one liners! If you go back to my post on the other thread of which you are refering I did a quite lengthy and detailed exposition of Romans 3:9,19-23.

    However, dropping that, I would be more than happy to give you my input on whatever questions you have about Romans 9.
     
  13. Chowmah

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    Hey Biblicist
    Chapter nine? Your fine with it (as the way i understand it)? What if your not one of the predestined?
     
  14. The Biblicist

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    Paul tells Christians how they can know if they were predestinated or not in 1 Thes. 1:4-5 and 2 Thes. 2:13-14 and Peter tells how they can make their calling and election sure in 2 Pet. 1:1-11.
     
  15. Moriah

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    Chowmah,

    God knows who will choose Him before the creation of the world. So what to you is the problem with that?
     
  16. Chowmah

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    And further more why come on this board and speak of your beliefs if it doesnt really matter what you say or believe if everyones like a pre programed robot as to their destination?
     
  17. The Biblicist

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    Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
    16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

    18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
    19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
    20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
    21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
    22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
    23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
    24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?


    Where do you find in Romans 9 that God simply foreknew who would believe and who would not and then chose those who chose him???

    How does that make sense with Romans 9:15-18? How does that make sense with the potter and the vessels in Romans 9:1-24???

    Why would Paul say then "it is of him that WILLETH" when you say it is????
     
  18. Chowmah

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    Hi Moriah
    None. But...is that what that chapter says?

    Romans 9:16 (KJV)
    16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
     
  19. Moriah

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    That is exactly what we are when one believes in the kind of predestination of Calvinists.
     
  20. The Biblicist

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    You will discover that moriah could care less what it says or means. He is merely interested in telling you his opinion of what he believes it does not mean and telling you HIS OPINION of what he wants it to mean and what you should think it means.

    I have never seen him ever deal expositorily with scriptures. He thinks that somehow he is inspired by God to tell everyone what the Scriptures mean even when the scriptures flatly contradict what he is saying to anyone that can read and comprehend!
     

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