Romans III

No. There's no redefinition here. There's absolutely nothing 'new' here. but there is a very concise definition/identification of what/who the real Israel/children of Zion always has been. Nothing new here.

If there always had been “no respect of persons with God” (v 11), “what advantage then hath the Jew?”

If it had always been that “not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law”(v 13), “what advantage then hath the Jew?”

If it had always been that “Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law”, in that “they show the work of the law written in their hearts” (vv 14,15), “what advantage then hath the Jew?”

If it always had been that “the uncircumcision” could “keep the ordinances of the law” (v 26), “what advantage then hath the Jew?”

If it always had been that “he is not a Jew who is one outwardly” but “he is a Jew who is one inwardly” and “neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh” but “circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter” (vv 28,29), “what advantage then hath the Jew?”

See Ps 87. There's really nothing new here. .....It behoveth you to be born from above; Jn 3:7 That is the true, real, child of Zion. The real Israel. The real Jew. Always has been.

 

You said in the OP:

....and by that you mean only the physical descendants of Abraham (which it's not even for certain that even exists today). The real descendants of Abraham, the real children of Zion, the real Israel, the real Jews, are those that are born from above, and their physical manifestation today is the church of Christ. And it's to the church of Christ that the promises apply.

 

Hi th1bill, I'm just now seeing this. Agreed we do not replace them we are adopted.

 

The Old Covenant served its purpose and is gone for good

At the risk of repeating what kyredneck has stated already, Paul tells us that the real children of promise are the spiritual descendents of Abraham, not his DNA descendants 2 Cor 6:16 – 18. If anyone wants to argue the point your argument is with Paul not with your fellow man. Since Paul is the inspired writer I have to side with him—not a modern day would-be-prophet.

In 2nd Cor Paul is repeating the prophecy of Ezk 37: 22 – 27 where he says he sets his sanctuary among men and lives among them.

And, as Tom as wisely stated before the deeper you get into the Old Testament prophets the more you realize the redemption of Israel is not the physical redemption of Israel, but their spiritual redemption.

Jesus said he came to fulfill the law and prophets Matt 5:17.

Old Covenant Israel (Abraham’s DNA descendants) had a purpose that was temporary in nature (to foreshadow and prepare the way for the New Covenant) and when it was fulfilled in 70 AD Christ returned and ushered out the Old Covenant completely and ushered in the New Covenant completely. In order to bring Abraham’s DNA descendants back into the picture you would have to bring back the Old Covenant and there is no provision to do that. We are told the New Covenant is without end.

When read in the proper context it makes so much sense.

“Your understanding of the inspiration of Scripture is utterly astounding!” Mel

Why thank you Mel!

 

Bud, it's as I told you earlier, you've failed miserably to prove any such thing. I suppose that was the intent of this thread, to declare those who are not premil sensationalists to be heretics. And you're not dusting your sandals, you're skeedaddling. You've proved nothing and can prove nothing.

 

If this is not being replaced/supplanted, exactly what do you call it?:

40 When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will let out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.45 And when the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. Mt 21

11 And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven:
12 but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast forth into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Mt 8

 

I didn't post what I did to support th1bill. In fact, I very much disagree with much of what he has posted. However, in the book of Romans it is clear that Paul deals with two groups of people: Israel/Jews and Gentiles, and refers to both as children of God, children of Abraham, etc. I do agree that Israel in the OT in a picture of God's elect in many instances, but in the book of Romans Paul refers to God's people from among the Jewish race as Jews/Israel. That's key because it slices through two extremes. On the one side you have people who believe in a physical redemption for the entire nation of natural Israel. That's not what Paul means when he says all Israel shall be saved. He's not talking about the nation of Israel, but God's people who are Jews by descendency who have been blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. On the side you have people who try to say that "all Israel" is the entire elect family of God. Problem is, the all Israel that shall be saved is the Israel that has been blinded, the Israel who are enemies for the gospel's sake but beloved for the fathers' sake.

The only way to make sense of Romans in my experience is to understand that by the terms Jew and Israel from chapter 3 forward Paul means God's people from among the Jewish race.

 

Who do you think the husbandmen, kingdom and the them are? Just curious.

Capernaum, is one of three cities Christ curses directly. The judgment on these three towns has been rendered.

 

"And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven"

But thanks be unto God, who always leadeth us in triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest through us the savor of his knowledge in every place. 2 Cor 2:14

For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea. Hab 2:14

And he shall stand, and shall feed his flock in the strength of Jehovah, in the majesty of the name of Jehovah his God: and they shall abide; for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. Micah 5:4

So shall they fear the name of Jehovah from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun; for he will come as a rushing stream, which the breath of Jehovah driveth. Isa 59:19

For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the Gentiles, saith Jehovah of hosts. Mal 1:11

Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass that, in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Hosea 1:10

And it shall come to pass in the latter days, that the mountain of Jehovah`s house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. Isa 2:2

All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn unto Jehovah; And all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. Ps 22:27

Jehovah will be terrible unto them; for he will famish all the gods of the earth; and men shall worship him, every one from his place, even all the isles of the nations. Zeph 2:11

And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven: but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast forth into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Mt 8.11-12

Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy king cometh unto thee; he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, even upon a colt the foal of an ass. And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem; and the battle bow shall be cut off; and he shall speak peace unto the nations: and his dominion shall be from sea to sea, and from the River to the ends of the earth. Zech 9:9-10

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband. Gal 4

22 And no man putteth new wine into old wineskins; else the wine will burst the skins, and the wine perisheth, and the skins: but they put new wine into fresh wine-skins. Mark 2

1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith Jehovah.
2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thy habitations; spare not: lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes.
3 For thou shalt spread aboard on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall possess the nations, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited. Isa 54

And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands; Rev 7:9

At that time will I bring you in, and at that time will I gather you; for I will make you a name and a praise among all the peoples of the earth, when I bring back your captivity before your eyes, saith Jehovah. Zeph 3:11

They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the root of Jesse, that standeth for an ensign of the peoples, unto him shall the nations seek; and his resting-place shall be glorious. Isa 11:9-10

God enlarge Japheth, And let him dwell in the tents of Shem.... Gen 9:27

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. Mt 21:43

 

The husbandmen were the religious rulers of the Jews. Pretty simple since the bible plainly declares this fact. The kingdom is God's kingdom. The nation He gave it to is the holy nation made up of kings and priests to God.

 

Rom 11:1 I ask, then: Did God reject his own people? Certainly not! I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin.

Rom 11:25 There is a secret truth, my friends, which I want you to know, for it will keep you from thinking how wise you are. It is that the stubbornness of the people of Israel is not permanent, but will last only until the complete number of Gentiles comes to God.

Rom 11:32 For God has made all people prisoners of disobedience, so that he might show mercy to them all.

Rom 11:33 How great are God's riches! How deep are his wisdom and knowledge! Who can explain his decisions? Who can understand his ways?

Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Isa 54:6 Israel, you are like a young wife, deserted by her husband and deeply distressed. But the LORD calls you back to him and says:

Isa 54:7 "For one brief moment I left you; with deep love I will take you back.

Isa 54:8 I turned away angry for only a moment, but I will show you my love forever." So says the LORD who saves you.

Isa 54:9 "In the time of Noah I promised never again to flood the earth. Now I promise not to be angry with you again; I will not reprimand or punish you.

Isa 54:10 The mountains and hills may crumble, but my love for you will never end; I will keep forever my promise of peace." So says the LORD who loves you.

Isa 56:6 And the LORD says to those foreigners who become part of his people, who love him and serve him, who observe the Sabbath and faithfully keep his covenant:

Isa 56:7 "I will bring you to Zion, my sacred hill, give you joy in my house of prayer, and accept the sacrifices you offer on my altar. My Temple will be called a house of prayer for the people of all nations."

Isa 56:8 The Sovereign LORD, who has brought his people Israel home from exile, has promised that he will bring still other people to join them.

Isa 60:3 Nations will be drawn to your light, And kings to the dawning of your new day.

Isa 60:7 All the sheep of Kedar and Nebaioth Will be brought to you as sacrifices And offered on the altar to please the LORD. The LORD will make his Temple more glorious than ever.

Isa 60:8 What are these ships that skim along like clouds, Like doves returning home?

Isa 60:9 They are ships coming from distant lands, Bringing God's people home. They bring with them silver and gold To honor the name of the LORD, The holy God of Israel, Who has made all nations honor his people.

Isa 60:10 The LORD says to Jerusalem, "Foreigners will rebuild your walls, And their kings will serve you. In my anger I punished you, But now I will show you my favor and mercy.

Isa 60:12 But nations that do not serve you Will be completely destroyed.

Zec 14:3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he has fought in times past.

Zec 14:4 At that time he will stand on the Mount of Olives, to the east of Jerusalem. Then the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west by a large valley. Half of the mountain will move northward, and half of it southward.

Zec 14:14 The men of Judah will fight to defend Jerusalem. They will take as loot the wealth of all the nations---gold, silver, and clothing in great abundance.

Zec 14:15 A terrible disease will also fall on the horses, the mules, the camels, and the donkeys---on all the animals in the camps of the enemy.

Zec 14:16 Then all of the survivors from the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go there each year to worship the LORD Almighty as king and to celebrate the Festival of Shelters.

Zec 14:17 If any nation refuses to go and worship the LORD Almighty as king, then rain will not fall on their land.

Zec 14:18 If the Egyptians refuse to celebrate the Festival of Shelters, then they will be struck by the same disease that the LORD will send on every nation that refuses to go.

Zec 14:19 This will be the punishment that will fall on Egypt and on all the other nations if they do not celebrate the Festival of Shelters.

 

I agree, He was speaking to the leadership of Israel.

 

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