Romans1:24-27

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by donnA, Dec 4, 2002.

  1. donnA

    donnA
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    NKJV Romans1: 24Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
    26For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

    KJV Romans1: 24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet

    What vile passions(affections) are these verses saying they were given up to? Women exchangeing the natural use, for what is against nature. What is it saying is against nature?
    The clue is in the next verse, without it we can not properly interpet this verse.
    "Likewise", meaning what is being said next is the saem actions being spoken of in the previous verse. So "likewise" what? Lets keep looking and see. Men leaving the natural use of the women, and burning in their lusts for other men. Isn't it obvious that this is talking about homosexuality? I think it is.
    Therefore when we go back to verse 26, what did the women exchange the natural use of(the hint remember was in verse 27)? The natutal use of their bodies sexually, meaning lesbianism.
    So these two verse are telling us that they had become homosexuals9probably the pagan form of worship, but Ididn't look into if that is what is being talked about here).

    So what are you to think when someone tells you these verses apply to you? Opinions?

    Well I have been asked to post the now infamous post from the fundamentalist forum that has been mentioned in several other posts on this forum. I did copy and keep this post, and have been told it has been deleted. I asked a moderator for if it were alright to repost it here since I hade been asked too, and was given permission.

    These verses we have just looked at were taken out of context and twisted and applied to women wearing pants. And people are wondering why we have been so strong on our stance, this has contributed to it. Several have said they also felt thats what we were being called by this verse being used like this.

    [ December 04, 2002, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: katie ]
     
  2. Johnv

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    Can you say that pants on a woman professes godliness?

    Can you say that pants on a MAN professes godliness?

    Can you say that a kilt on a man does not?

    Can you biblically show where pants are strictly men's clothing, and skirts are strictly women's clothing?

    Can you also show me where in the Bible it says that clothing standards are fixed, and do not change over time?
     
  3. donnA

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    John I have no idea what happened, but part of my post was missing and you did not get to see the whole thing. I am sorry I messed it up, but it did take me quite a while to work on this. I should have checked it out before I left the board but didn't, it should be a lesson to me to check all my post from now on to make sure they are right.
     
  4. Johnv

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    Methinks the shoe hath been squarely position between my teeth. ;)
     
  5. donnA

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    I'm really sorry John, you can edit a lot if you want.
     
  6. Aaron

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    Again. The anonymous poster you are quoting did not call any lady who wears pants a lesbian.

    It says that confusing the gender roles in dress results in the outward appearance of homosexuality.

    Also, the poster never said the disputed verses applied to clothing. The poster said that confusion in dress results in the appearance of that sin.

    It certainly is true in the case of men.

    Not so readily apparent in the case of women these days, I'll grant. There was a major upheaval in the 60's and 70's where feminists cast off their more feminine clothing not for the reason of comfort or utility, but because they were rebelling against the very idea of gender roles.

    Would this statement be more appropriate in that context?

    What if a woman wears a tuxedo today? Would that statement be true?

    There was a girl when I was in college who wore a man's shirt and tie. A lot of us wondered if she was a little ambiguous.

    Would the disputed statement apply to that situation?

    [ December 05, 2002, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Aaron ]
     
  7. hrhema

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    I am sorry but women who are lesbian do make it obvious by the way they dress when they play the male part. Also most lesbian women wear silver jewelry and the rings they wear have certain symbols on them. Not only do gay women wear silver jewelry with special symbols but so do men. I know this because my ex wife decided to become a lesbian.

    There is a group of lesbian women who folks refer to as Dykes and the reason is that they wear mens clothes and they wear mens hair cuts.

    I studied long and hard on the subject of pants and I discovered that ancient Egyptian and Babylonian/Assyrian women wore clothing with legs in them hundreds of years before Moses was even born so this idea that pants were created first for men is not true at all. It has also been proven that women in China wore pants for thousands of years. There is an island in the pacific where the women have worn pants for hundreds of years while the men wore skirts.

    I believe Christian women should not wear pants that were created for men and men should not wear pants created for women. Just like both men and women wore robes in Biblical days. There was distinctions in the robes that separated robes for women from robes for men.

    Anyone who says that a woman is going to be lost or is not a Christian for wearing pants is legalistic and people just need to ignore them.
    They have the spirit of the Pharisees.
     
  8. Abiyah

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    During the heat of the skirt/pants debate here, I
    turned the corner of my street, and one of the
    neighbor gentlemen was outside checking on his
    van, wearing his bright red "skirt" with large yel-
    low flowers on it. I use the word, skirt, for lack
    of its proper name in the Islands. This is normal
    wear for them, just as are kilts for the Scots.
    Such clothing is acceptable and in no way sinful,
    no matter how immodest I feel in all such clothing.

    When I was a girl living in the St. Louis area, how-
    ever, it was the "easy" girls who wore skirts and
    not pants. In spite of this, I was forced to wear
    skirts because of my parents' religious beliefs.
    It caused me no end of grief to be, by their be-
    liefs, grouped with the easy girls. Skirts, then,
    were unacceptable in those circles for anyone
    professing godliness.

    [ December 05, 2002, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]
     
  9. Johnv

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    I believe Christian women should not wear pants that were created for men and men should not wear pants created for women.

    Then men and women wearing jeans, for example, which are often (but not always) androgenous, would not be an issue, I assume. Nor would the wearing of sweats, tshirts, baseball caps, or other androgenous clothing.

    My ex used to make off with my good Disney sweatshirts all the time!!!
     
  10. donnA

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    Aaron I'm not going to keep going over this with you, it has gotten to the point of being terriably silly to keep chaseing the tail running in circles, I've heard what you had to say in your not too nice p.m.'s, and frankly I'm pretty sick of you being on me. It's quit obvious what she intended it to say. Not my fault your so blinded by opinion on the dress issue to see the attack in this statement. Debate over dess is fine, but personal attacks on one sexual orientation is something different, too bad you can not seperate the two.
     
  11. Aaron

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    Katie, you're not the only one who reads these threads. I'm not "on you." Someone has to speak out for the ladies who are being accused, even if I don't agree with them.

    In this society we allow even the worst criminals to have an advocate before they're condemned for their crimes. Certainly you wouldn't begrudge them some kind of advocacy before they're tried and convicted in the court of public opinion.

    I'm glad you reposted the alleged accusation. That appears to me to be an act of good faith on your part.

    Feel free to post any of my PM's for public viewing, to support your claim that they are "not so nice." [​IMG]

    [ December 05, 2002, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Aaron ]
     
  12. new man

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    I think anyone who would assert that it's a sin for a woman to wear pants is a spiritually abusive nutcase.

    Russ &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
  13. donnA

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    Aaron, no one is accusing anyone. One person made a post, and it was requested that I post it, without the name of course.
    First you complain about this thread, then you say this
    I could say the same thing for us wearing pants, but some would have us bound and gaged.
    Then let the person who wrote it step forward and explain. Noone is denying them that.
     
  14. Jessie

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    [ December 11, 2002, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Jessie ]
     
  15. SueLyn

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    Katie, the quote you put on this thread does indeed seem to be saying that any woman that wears pants, trousers or britches is giving the appearance of being a homosexual or lesbian, especially by using the verses they did. But, no where in those verses is clothing, men's or women's, mentioned. What I see these verses saying is God gave sinful man over to the evil desires of his heart. Paul seems to be saying it is the worst way to distort God's natural plan.
    Yes, Aaron, that is exactly what the poster was saying, that any woman that puts on pants has the outward appearance of a lesbian. The poster did not say some women, but all women look like lesbians, if they are wearing pants. So, not only Katie looks like a lesbian but so do I, now that's just silly! [​IMG] We used to only look like men, now we look like lesbians.
    I have pictures of my mother and grandmother wearing pants in the 20's, 30's, 40's and 50's, and I can promise it wasn't because they were feminist, they were caring for the cattle, horses and doing farm chores. And if they did wear dresses outside while doing the chores, they would bend over and bring the back of their skirts to the front and tuck/pin it into the waist of the skirt or dress. See how quick you can turn a dress into pants for all those outside chores?
    All, and I do mean ALL, my jewelry is silver or white gold. Every necklace, every pin, every braclet, every ring including my wedding band and family ring...I've always preferred silver or white gold since I was a child. Are you also aware that the gay community uses the rainbow as a symbol of being gay? So, now I have to see the rainbow as this symbol instead of the symbol God intended it to be used as? I don't think so!
    I figured I might as well go all the way, I do wear mens jeans, Levi's usually or the Arizona brand, why...they fit better and they are cheaper than women's jeans. [​IMG] Sweats and t-shirts, my husband's employer gives out t-shirts all the time, my husband doesn't really like to wear t-shirts, so he always gives them to me. I couldn't count all the t-shirts I have that says something about Goodyear on them, and hey...they are free.
    I've also been known to wear mens insulted coveralls and flannel shirts too. I'm a riot...huh? [​IMG] I live in the country, I was raised in the country, we have cattle...not one or two, it's called a herd. Don't even tell me I can't dress appropriatly when the wind blows 60 miles an hour and the temp is in the teens, not to mention the frozen sleet pinging in your face, that hurts.
    I realize there are a lot of women on this board that have never known there were Baptists that believed that women should not wear pants ever, they should only wear dresses or skirts. But I have, I was raised in a Baptist church that taught that, from the time I was in the nursery to the age of 22, my parents had us in church whenever those doors were open, my parents both taught Sunday School classes, I helped in Children's Church and I even had my own bus route as soon as I turned 16 and I visited all the people or kids on my route every Saturday night. But when I was at school or any function other than church, I wore pants or even shorts. And all the people at that church knew it. Not all the young girls were nice to me because of it, but some were, I'd known them all my life, they came to my house on Sunday afternoons and rode horses with me. And yes, they would borrow a pair of my old jeans to wear, and they knew I would never tell their parents either. I figured what they wore and when they wore it was between them and God, the same as it was for me.
    Katie, don't let the attitude of some of these women upset you. There are lots of lovely ladies that wear only dresses, they would never hurt you or any other woman that wore pants. They honestly believe it is a personal choice between you and God and they are using the same freedom of choice by wearing dresses or skirts only.
    Sue ;)
     
  16. Aaron

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    Not one word of complaint from me. If the "quote" about Romans 1:24-27 is referred to in another thread (and it is) then it should be posted somewhere on the Board.

    I think this thread is an excellent idea. I'm glad you were asked to post it.

    Absolutely concur! Please step forward and give account!
     
  17. Aaron

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    The assertion is that it is a sin for a woman to wear men's clothing. So far, both sides of the debate have conceded this point.

    The issue of whether pants or skirts is proper feminine attire is separate.

    Now this is an accurate summation of the disputed quote. Thank you. And indeed, men and women who go prancing about in each others' clothes are generally suspected homosexuals, whether they really are or not. (Remember my example of the girl in college who always wore men's shirts and ties.)

    This no one is really divided on.
     
  18. Helen

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    Just to add to the confusion for the fun of it, my daughter, who is somewhat of a fad started, decided to declare Friday "tie day" at her school. No matter what she wears on Friday, she adds a man's tie, loosely tied more like a necklace for her. It's caught on. Easily half the student body and faculty now do the "Friday tie day" thing.

    WHAT you wear is not nearly so much the point as it is what you LOOK like (in it)! She is still absolutely a girl. When she went through her skater clothes stage she wore baggy clothes and a backwards baseball cap to school constantly

    ... and was voted sophomore princess for Homecoming.

    No one ever thought she was a guy. She never tried to pretend to be a guy. She is just having a ball being alive, and she brings that sense of fun with her wherever she goes (which is one of the things that made it so bloomin' hard to discipline her when she was younger!).

    It has taken me this long (some blondes really are this slow, you understand!) to realize that the fault in the "pants on girls is a sin" sort of argument is that they are missing the point. It isnt what you wear; it's what you look like. This is assuming modesty, please.

    [ December 05, 2002, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: Helen ]
     
  19. donnA

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    Well, if she can be voted a princess dressed like that(hey my son is till doing it), then it is not the clothing item you are wearing, but how you look, and how you present yourself, which all comes from the heart in the first place. So in reality it is a heart issue.
    And just a note, even lesbians wear dresses. Anne Hecke wears dresses and looks very feminem(sp?) Nothing at all like a lesbian.(ex-partner of Rosie O'Donnell, and played romantic lead with Harrison Ford in 6 Days & 7 Nights).
     
  20. Abiyah

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    I never heard of the silver jewelry thing before.
    8o) I wish I never had, because now, whenever I
    put any silver on, i will think twice about it. 8o)

    But I think that may be regional.
     

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