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Ron Paul: Obama's 'goal' is economic collapse

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by poncho, Jun 28, 2009.

  1. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    So where, on this thread, did I specifically defend his earmarks ?

    Second, to point out that you have been inconsistent on the dems earmarks is ON topic. I pointed out your inconsistency by bringing up the War Funding bill.

    And the topic of this thread is Obama's economic plans for America, not Dr, Paul's earmarks.
     
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    He tried that dishonest tactic with me as well.

    And a very good point it was.

    Baffles the mind does it not.
     
  3. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    That it does. Little Green Footballs, (which USED to be a very good site, but has devolved into nothing but Charle's Johnson's own personality cult) used to have a great prayer posted on their home page....paraphrased


    Lord, give me the courage to engage others in honest debate,
    The strength to ignore the trolls,
    And the wisdom to know the difference.
     
  4. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Cap and Trade Will Lead to Capital Flight

    In my last column, I joked that with public spending out of control and the piling on of the international bailout bill, economic collapse seems to be the goal of Congress. It is getting harder to joke about such a thing however, as the non-partisan General Accounting Office (GAO) has estimated that the administration's health care plan would actually cost over a trillion dollars. This reality check may have given us a temporary reprieve on this particular disastrous policy, however an equally disastrous energy policy reared its ugly head on Capitol Hill last week.

    The Cap and Trade Bill HR 2454 was voted on last Friday. Proponents claim this bill will help the environment, but what it really does is put another nail in the economy's coffin. The idea is to establish a national level of carbon dioxide emissions, and sell pollution permits to industry. HR 2454 also gives federal bureaucrats new power to regulate a wide variety of household appliances, such as light bulbs and refrigerators, and further distorts the market by providing more of your tax money to auto companies.

    The administration has pointed to Spain as a shining example of this type of progressive energy policy. Spain has been massively diverting capital from the private sector into politically favored environmental projects for the better part of a decade, and many in Washington apparently like what they see. However, under no circumstances should anyone serious about economic recovery emulate an economy that is now approaching 20 percent unemployment, where every green job created, eliminated 2.2 real jobs and cost around $800,000 each!

    < snip>

    Contrary to claims repeated over and over, there is no consensus in the scientific community that global warming is getting worse or that it is manmade. In fact over 30,000 scientists signed a petition recently directly disputing the claims on which this policy is based.

    Full Article . . .
     
  5. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

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    You might want to focus on that first statement: "Lord give me the courage to engage others in honest debate..."
     
  6. targus

    targus New Member

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    A quick view of your posts shows that you typically offer little more than one-liner put downs.

    That's fine if you believe that it strengthens your liberal positions and encourages us all to examine our own opinions and convinces us that the liberal view is the more correct view.

    If not then you are wasting not only your own time but ours as well.
     
  7. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Excellent, Targus.
     
  8. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

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    If you don't like what I post, don't read it, and certainly don't take the time to comment about it.
     
  9. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    :laugh:

    The subject matter is a little too deep for you, I'm guessing.
     
  10. targus

    targus New Member

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    Yes, thank you for demonstrating my point.
     
  11. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Apparently the bill has provisions that requires dwelling houses to meet certain "green" criteria before they can be sold. My house is 42 old. Can you imagine how much it would cost to make it "green". I don't believe they are talking about green paint.

    There have been a number of polls showing that liberals are less inclined toward God than Republicans. Frankly, but sadly, I believe their god is nature.

    Heard today that "bo" wanted to give animals the right to sue humans!:tonofbricks:
     
  12. targus

    targus New Member

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    HR2454 is 732 pages of legalise.

    What are the chances that anyone read it before it was voted upon?
     
    #52 targus, Jul 2, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2009
  13. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    Can you please quote the bill's language? Sorry, but I think this is wrong.

    They probably should sue us, but again, any evidence to support this? Again, I doubt you.
     
  14. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    What does he mean by "round after round" of stimulus? Is he including the first tax check Bush gave us or is he referring to the one plan as "round after round"?
     
  15. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    Cap and trade is two pronged, it is not just for the environment, it also reduces our dependence on oil and carbon emitting coal.

    I keep seeing people saying things like this but never see any support for their argument. What is the nail in the economic coffin? Which numbers is being used to predict the nail? How will regulating appliances hurt the consumers?

    Wasn't there a thread here a while back that talked about the dangers if you break one of these CFC bulbs? Don't you think Government should protect our children from the potential hazards or do you think we should let the makers put anything in our homes be it safe or not?
     
  16. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Think all you want, doubt all you want. The truth will out.
     
  17. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Explaine to usens who not edicated how it will reduce our dependence on foreign oil. We have plenty of oil off shore if the tree huggers would quit their pagan worship.

    Everything will cost more LeBuick. You should be able to understand that.

    Yes the government does a good job of protecting our children. 50 million unborn children slaughtered. You are really on a roll tonight LB!:laugh::laugh:
     
  18. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    First and foremost Cap and Trade is based on a hoax, a lie. Any legislation that has to use lies and scare tactics to be passed into law shouldn't even be considered in the first place.

    Spend more, borrow more, tax more. It adds up to negative numbers no matter how you slice it. Bailing out the people who created the problem teaches them what? The best stimulus package the government could ever come up with that would turn this economy and nation around quickly and easily is very very simple.

    1. Abolish the un-constitutional Federal Reserve and IRS. Let the people who earn their money keep their money.

    2. Return to consitutional principles. This also means getting out of the UN and ending foreign aid.

    3. Teach the truth in school. We entered into a covenant relationship with our creator upon the foundation of this nation. We are a republic. One nation under God and not a democracy where every man can do what seems right in his own eyes. Yes Virginia, there are absolutes!

    I think adults should protect children from potential hazards and business should protect consumers. Instead we have adults who want the government to do everything, including our thinking for us and business that couldn't care less about consumers.

    Why? Because we've become to accustomed to relying on others doing for us what we should be doing for ourselves. See number (3) above.

    The U.S. constitution does not give government the power to micro manage every aspect of our lives.


    In effect, this bill (Cap and Trade) creates an entirely new commodity that is guaranteed to generate ever-increasing profit for those who have already spent millions preparing to get in on the ground floor. Here's a hint: that does not include your average mom and pop investor or your dual-income family struggling to make ends meet in a crashing economy. Here's another hint: it does include financial juggernauts like Goldman Sachs who have been investing in solar, wind, and biofuels for years and now just happen to find themselves in the perfect position to start reaping vast profits from their headstart in the new carbon credit economy (and you thought Paulson was into going green for any other reason than making green?). It also includes Obama, who was instrumental in helping set up the Chicago Climate Exchange for his political cronies like Al Gore, who already has a company which he uses to buy carbon credits from himself and who had made multi-million dollar investments in companies developing carbon tracking software that will be essential to the new carbon-swindle economy.


    There are still those out there, however, who believe that this time it's going to be different. This time the government is going to set up a new trillion dollar industry overnight, make sure it is regulated by angels of unquestionable integrity and goodwill, prevent it from being manipulated by big business, and create scores of new "green" jobs in the renewable energy industry (presumably to replace the hundreds of thousands of jobs that the economy is already hemorrhaging or the hundreds of thousands more that will be shed when these carbon taxes and penalties really ratchet up in the next decade). Well, let's assume for a moment that we have crossed into just such a fantasy world.
    SOURCE . . .


    (The bottom line really is the bottom line.)

    "It still does not change the fact that the bill itself only offers phony solutions to a problem that doesn't exist."
     
    #58 poncho, Jul 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2009
  19. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    1. I didn't say our dependence on foreign oil, I said our dependence on oil period.

    2. By finding alternative ways to create the energy we use.

    Like you, may people doubted electricity and they had all kinds of evil slogans against it. It was because of investments and developments that we find it as safe, accepted and used like it is today. There is always those who believe there is nothing wrong with what we have when others try to advance us into the future.

    To drill offshore will take major investing. If we're going to invest, why not invest in alternatives that won't harm the environment? I mean like wind or sun.

    Not sure where you live, but we get a discount on our utility bill if we accept wind energy or agree to let them throttle back our AC during high demand periods. So excuse me for not accepting blanket statements like everything, what exactly are you saying will cost more.
     
  20. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    Not if you tax more than you borrow and spend. Again, blanket statements and generalities are never absolute.

    Businesses protect consumers? You mean like the meat packing plants that sold spoiled meat along with rats and workers body parts prior to the FDA? Are you joking, businesses protect consumers? The government is protecting the consumer from business because there is no way every American can be an expert on every product or industry.

    Also, not all of want government to "do everything". However, when the nation moves in another direction like alternative energy then it helps to have someone putting up the investment capitol to keep the prices down for the consumers.

    Again, blanket statements. Government doesn't micro manage "EVERY" aspect of our lives. We enjoy more freedom's in this nation than any other on earth (to my knowledge we do). It just seems strange to hear the people who have the most complaining about not having.
     
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