Ron Paul: Stimulating Our Way to Rock Bottom

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Ps104_33, Jan 16, 2009.

  1. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
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    "With attention turning to the next big economic stimulus package, questions are still swirling about our economic troubles. How did we get here? How do we get out? As usual, Washington has all the wrong answers. According to many politicians, we got here by not spending enough, not consuming enough, and not regulating enough. Now government, like some mythical white knight, is going to ride in to save the day by blanketing the economy with dollars, hiring an army of new bureaucrats, creating make-work jobs, and sending everyone some form of a bailout check. The debate seems to focus on whether this will cost enough to save the economy, or if this is just a "down payment" with much more government spending to come. Talk like that would be comical, if the results weren't going to be so tragic.............."


    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/01/stimulating_our_way_to_rock_bo.html
     
  2. Dragoon68

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  3. Martin

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    ==Actually we are being "stimulated" by the need to avoid a total economic meltdown. Things are getting really bad and are going to get worse. I was just informed last night about problems North Carolina is having that will affect public school teachers in the '09-'10 school year if some money does not come in. My job at the community college is on the line as well. Our states need income to avoid huge deficit spending and draconian state layoffs. We have been warned, the money is gone, and until the private sector returns it is not coming back.

    I like Ron Paul, I have great respect for him, but on this I think he is wrong. Letting the market correct itself is not an option right now. I do agree with Mr. Paul when he states that "we are at an economic dead-end and those in power are in denial". It is not just the people in power who are in denial, it is many of my fellow conservative Republicans who are in denial. This is a dangerous denial. Republicans in D.C. have spent the last eight years spending money like it was going out of style and now, when we need to spend money, they try to close the pocket books. To make matters even worse they are still spending money on all sorts of overseas adventures and wasteful programs at home. Things might not be as bad now if they had not wasted all that money in Iraq, Pakistan, Jordan, Egypt, Israel, and all the other countries we have been pouring our money into. We should not be spending money on other nations and we should not be nation building.

    I need to stop before I get myself too upset :saint: .
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    Ron Paul is right. And it wouldn't hurt the Public school system to lear to do with less and quit wasting money.
     
  5. Bro. Curtis

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    This is akin to trying to finance your way out of debt.
     
  6. Martin

    Martin
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    ==The fact that the public school systems in America waste a lot of money is no reason to allow students to lose the few good teachers they have. Layoffs and budget cuts are a sure way to guarantee that the better teachers walk or move up to the colleges.
     
  7. Dragoon68

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    I hope you don't lose you teaching job but here's the right answer:

    The private sector is what makes the economy go - not the government. The government will only increase our debt and then in your older age when you really can't afford it you'll be living with today's problem compounded with tomorrow interest. Your friendly concerned politicians will then be looking for new suckers to extract their play money from.

    Education is one area where there's already far too much government involvement and that has a lot to do with why their aren't enough good teachers and the schools are not responsive to the consumers - the local people - they serve. They are loaded with excess. To be reminded all I have to do is walk over to the local high school empire just a few blocks away - where I normally vote - and read the directory of all the administrators and look around at all the plush facilities. If that's not enough I can drive over tp the district school fortress headquarters and really be overwhelmed with the extravagance. Every election they claim they need more "for the kids", of course, but I don't buy it one little bit. I, my father, and his father received good education from good teachers for a whole lot less. People aren't any smarter today.

    Then I look in the parking lot at all the nice cars the students drive and I wonder just how bad the economy really is and if, perhaps, we could do with a bit less. Maybe they'll have to sell a few of them. Maybe there will be less traffic. Maybe there will be fewer accidents. Maybe there will be less wear and tear on the roads. Traffic is always infinitely better when school it out. Maybe then we won't need so many of the road "infrastructure" make work.
     
  8. billwald

    billwald
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    How is giving money to banks going to stimulate the economy? There is no evidence that businesses that are well run and turning a profit can't get loans. There is no evidence that people who can manage their money can't get loans. People who can't put 20% down on a house defacto demonstrate that they can't handle money and defer gratification. If a person can't put money down on a house it is fair evidence that he can't afford to rent a house.
     
  9. Pastor Larry

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    So you want money from the federal government instead of the state government? Where will the federal government get the money? It isn't there.

    You say the states need to avoid huge deficit spending. Why doesn't the federal government need to do the same thing? I can assure you your state has more money (or less debt) than the federal government has.

    Schools and everyone else have to learn to live in leaner times. It's tough, but we all have to tighten the belt and deal with it.
     
    #9 Pastor Larry, Jan 17, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2009
  10. Martin

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    ==This is not about belt tightening or learning to live in leaner times. If that was all it was I would be in full agreement. We are on the verge of apocalyptic economic problems that will cause major problems for public services such as schools (etc). If money does not come in our nation, our state, is in dire trouble. I think too many conservatives are ignoring the danger of our current situation.

    ==I don't "want" any of this. Federal stimulus packages are against all the political ideals I hold to. This is not a matter of what I "want" this is a matter of what "must" happen to avoid drastic economic problems. The Federal Government will be able to borrow the money. In time that horrible hen will return and lay a big egg on our nation's doorstep. True. However that egg can be dealt with via lean times. The problem now is much more serious. There is no money.



    ==Republicans, Democrats, and the Bush administration have spent eight years spending money like drunken sailors on shore leave. If they had been better stewards with that money maybe, just maybe, the federal budget would not be in the mess it is in now. The states have less debt than the Federal government. This is true. However the states also have fewer sources of income than the Federal government does. The Federal government will be better able to deal with the large debt than states can.

    This is not about what I want, I don't want this. This is about what has to be done to keep the states from sinking into horrible economic problems.
     
  11. Martin

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    ==I hope so as well. However if things keep going the way they are going there seems that some teachers of public schools and community colleges will find themselves out of work. That is not good for our community, our state, or our nation. At a time when demand for community college services is at almost record levels the colleges are struggling to maintain full and part time faculty. Instructors are having to teach 9-10 courses each with no extra pay (avg course load is about 6). Part time instructors are finding themselves without jobs. O, and btw, part time instructors don't get pink slips or notices. Their contracts are simply not renewed. Then we move to the public schools where classrooms are already over crowded and there already is a shortage of (good) teachers. This is going to hurt our students and the future of our communities. That is my first concern.

    ==There is no doubt that change must happen in Raleigh and Washington. No doubt. If the private sector was working we would not be in this mess. The private sector has stalled and therefore there is no money coming into state governments. What are we to do? Shut down the schools, hosptials, fire departments, and government offices? If not, where does the money come from? The only way to avoid absolute economic disaster at this time is a stimulus package to the states. Maybe tax cuts/credits would be good for private businesses and citizens. However the states need money.

    ==Good teachers are hard to find because the pay stinks and there is little teachers can do to effectively deal with discipline problems. No doubt that many public schools are failing our students. I see that in freshemn students at the college all the time. But I can't see how allowing the schools to suffer even more will help anyone or anything.

    ==Our school headquarters is an old tobacco barn that has been transformed into an office building. One could say many things about it but "plush" and "excess" are not two of them. When I look at city hall, however, "plush" and "excess" are two terms that work just fine. Until about five years ago our county had several old high schools. By old, I mean old in everyway. They opened two new high schools to replace the several old ones. The buildings are nice but not "plush". The old high schools have either been torn down or made into middle schools. Point? The problem you put your finger on is real but not universal.
     
  12. targus

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    I really would have to take issue with your complaint the teachers' pay "stinks".

    http://www.ncpublicschools.org/docs/fbs/finance/salary/schedules/2008-09schedules.pdf

    I am married to a teacher and we have several friends who are teachers or school administrators. From my experience teachers pretty much think that they are paid poorly and that their job is really hard.

    IMO this comes from being isolated from the real working world. Believe it or not - a lot of jobs are hard but we don't whine about it like teachers do.

    Take that more or less $40,000 average salary and factor in the 14, 15, or 16 weeks off and you are paid very well.

    And don't foget about the retirement package and medical benefits that are unmatched in most other jobs.

    BTW my wife is at the end of her teaching career and makes twice that amount and still thinks that she is poorly paid.

    Just don't tell her that I told you that !
     
  13. LeBuick

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    I think we need to invest more in education if we are continue to compete in this global economy.
     
  14. Pastor Larry

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    It's not apocalyptic by any means. It is a serious correction. There were severe problems to be sure, but nothing that won't go away. As a whole, everything was way overpriced, particularly housing and labor. Both will correct on their own. It will hurt in the meantime. But that's the cost of bad decisions.

    There is plenty of money. The money supply hasn't changed. The problem is in overvaluing things ... paying too much for them. I don't think the government "must" do anything. It will help in the short term, perhaps. Although let's be honest and admit that the last 350 billion hasn't done anything.


    It's been a 30 year problem, not an eight year problem. The federal budget is in a mess for the same thing that is going on now. The federal solution to a problem has always been spending ... throw money at it. As the problems got bigger, the amount of money thrown at it got bigger. The problem was that it hardly ever worked.

    Not really. It can take on more debt only because it buys money from others at high rates. That will come back and make our problems worse. And we will borrow more money to pay for the last money. and so it will go.

    I disagree. What we need to do is cut spending. We may need to end all credit, and go to a cash only society. People, including Washinton, don't know how to manage money. They buy things they don't need and can't afford. Washington can't do this.

    What happens when your state borrows money from the feds and the time comes to pay it back? They don't have it. The problem gets worse.

    Here's the bottom line, just like with the Big 3. Until the government operates on a viable business model, so to speak, the problems will not get solved. Printing money is not a viable business model.

    So people will suffer. Parents might have to educate their own kids. People might have to drive that car a few more years. They might have to forgo a vacation, and their children's little league season, perhaps cancel a few cell phone contracts and shut off the cable TV, cancel the netflix and eat out less often. But life will go on. And everything will get better in time.
     
  15. carpro

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    Most people will vote in favor of protecting their individual wallets at the expense of the greater good of the nation.

    The federal government should not be involved in financing public education in the first place.
     
  16. ray Marshall

    ray Marshall
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    All these packages to help the economy reminds me of how an old Indian explained daylight-saving time.
    "Cut on end of a blanket and sew it on the other end, to make it longer."

    Giving you back money isn't a good decision. If they give you a thousand dollars and raise your taxes $2000.00 does'nt even make good non-sense.
     
  17. Revmitchell

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    It is the Union that has indoctrinated everyone into believing this. Many jobs are poorly paid if you ask the workers in that field. The NEA's goal is six figure incomes for all teachers. Until that happens they will cry about being poorly paid. Six figure is to much.
     
  18. LeBuick

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    This describes the bush tax rebate checks, Obama plans to lower our rate which is a more lasting effect.
     

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