Ron Phillips on Women Preachers.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Ben W, Sep 4, 2005.

  1. Ben W

    Ben W
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    Ps Ron Phillips, SBC Ministry

    Devotional - Week of 8/29/05
    Breaking Down The Walls

    In Christ's family there can be no division into Jew and non-Jew, slave and free, male and female. Among us you are all equal.
    Galatians 3:28

    In these days when people pride themselves on equality and freedom, there are still three major walls in the church that need to be broken down.  Those walls are gender, race and denomination.  This week I want to focus on the gender wall. 

    This is a very controversial subject, especially in Southern Baptist circles.  We have been taught for years that women have a lesser place in the body of Christ.  Women can teach Sunday School, but can’t preach in the pulpit.  That’s not the way God intended for it to be.

    In Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost, Peter quoted the prophet Joel, saying, “And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy.” (emphasis added).

    Even back as far as the creation of the world, God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth." (Genesis 1:26-2  God made no distinction between the man and the woman.  He told them both to have dominion over the earth.  After the fall, God did place the man in authority, but that still didn’t negate the woman’s role.  Social order has nothing to do with equality.

    To put it in practical terms, President Bush has more authority than I do as a man, but he’s not better than me as a man, and has no more rights than I do as a man.

    Now I know some of you are already pulling out scriptures to refute this.  I can hear 1 Corinthians 14:34, which says, “Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.”  Or maybe 1 Timothy 2:11, “Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.”  The problem with those verses is that they are often taken out of context.  In the Greek culture in the synagogues, the women sat in the balcony while the men sat down front.  Since they had no microphones, the women couldn’t hear.  This is a fact of history.  During the teaching time, the women would call out, “What did he say?”  Paul was telling them not to disrupt, but to wait until they got home and ask their husbands if they didn’t hear or understand something.

    We know that Paul wasn’t telling them they couldn’t say anything, because he tells them in 1 Corinthians how their hair has to be when they preach, prophecy, or pray in public.  Paul was simply dealing with a cultural issue, much like we would deal with smoking or something cultural like that today.

    Let’s look at a few women in the Bible.  Take Sarah, the wife of Abraham.   She had enough authority in the home that she ran out the handmaid Hagar and her son, Ishmael.  Miriam, the sister of Moses was considered to be third in authority in the whole nation under Moses and Aaron (Exodus 15, Micah 6).  She was also a prophet.  Deborah judged Israel for 40 years.  Psalm 68:11 says, “The Lord gave the word; Great was the company of those who proclaimed it.”  The word for company is feminine.  It actually means a large army of women. 

    Elizabeth prophesied and Mary sang in the Spirit in Luke 1.  Anna, the prophetess, was the first woman to publicly preach Christ.  Joanna, Susanna, and Mary Magdalene ministered to Jesus from their possessions.  Luke 8:1-3 says, “Now it came to pass, afterward, that He went through every city and village, preaching and bringing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God. And the twelve were with Him, and certain women who had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities--Mary called Magdalene, out of whom had come seven demons, and Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others who provided for Him from their substance.”  The women helped fund Jesus’ ministry.  We know Jesus wasn’t poor.  He had enough that he needed a treasurer to keep up with finances.  The woman had an important and ongoing role in the ministry of Jesus.

    Lydia assisted Paul, and Phoebe is called Paul’s manager.  He entrusted his greatest writings to her.  He said, “I commend to you my sister Phoebe, treat her like you would me.”   He didn’t say, “Now here’s a woman coming.  Don’t let her stand in the pulpit or let what she does be called preaching.”  How ridiculous we’ve gotten today.

    In Romans 16:7, Junia (Junius in the King James Version) is feminine in the Greek.  Paul said she’s of note among the apostles.  That means she was considered one who had apostolic leadership.

    Women are spiritually-gifted equals with men, and if revival is to come, we must set our wives, daughters and sisters free to exercise their spiritual graces.  

    PRAYER:
    Lord, I know You created both man and woman in Your image.  I admit that I’ve let tradition dictate my views of woman rather than what Your Word says about them.  Forgive me for my prejudices.  Help me to walk in freedom and truth.  In Jesus’ name, amen.

    http://www.ronphillips.org/modules.php?name=News&new_topic=20&file=latest
     
  2. hamricba

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    Paul appeals to creation in 1 Timothy 2, not the lack of microphones. That's staying in context with proper exegesis.

    Women and men are equal and both are gifted. But we're made differently. These differences in roles do not imply any difference in worth or value. Sort of like bearing a child did not make my wife more valuable than me.
     
  3. Ps104_33

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    Thats an interesting interpretation. But what about I Tim. 3:2, 3:12, and Titus 1:6?

    I Tim 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife,(why didnt he say also the wife of one husband?) vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

    1 Timothy 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, again here why didnt Paul include the phrase wife of one husband?) ruling their children and their own houses well.

    Titus 1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, (again?) having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
     
  4. OldRegular

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    Ps104_33

    Amen! [​IMG]

    Phillips is simply wrong!
     
  5. Trotter

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    Ron Phillips is a man who has fell into the hole of Pentecostalism. While he once was very much Baptist in outlook (Southern Baptist, I do believe), he no longer is.

    I drive by Central Baptist every day going to and from work. Is was huge to begin with, but they are in process of building a huge new sanctuary. I'd estimate it to be around $5 million plus. Seems like a lot of money to feed one man's ego...

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  6. Orvie

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    My younger brother is a former member of his church. I even visited there in the early 80's. He left the church when Bro Ron exalted his experiences and feelings above the clear teaching of the Scripture.
    BTW, regarding women pastors, when God allows men to bear children, I'll support women pastors. :eek:
     
  7. Craigbythesea

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  8. Craigbythesea

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    But the Bible says,

    18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
    19. because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
    20. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
    21. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    22. Professing to be wise, they became fools,
    23. and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
    24. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
    25. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
    26. For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
    27. and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
    28. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
    29. being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
    30. slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
    31. without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
    32. and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. (NASB, 1995)


    [​IMG]
     
  9. Ben W

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    Folks, can we get past personal attacks on Ron Phillips, the subject at hand is his Bible Study, not him personally. I can tell you that I dislike most TV ministries, yet if we want to be taken seriously by their fans, lets lay off the ad homenim attacks and work on the subject matter! [​IMG]
     
  10. Ben W

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    Having said that, Craig, do you have a link for that second devotion? I would like to see why he feels that there would most likely be no prohibitation on what he mentioned, as I find that a little strange to say the least!
     
  11. JJB

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    Wow, I almost believed this was really what this guy wrote. I checked his website and found this: http://www.ronphillips.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=199

    Craig, where did you get this? Whoever wrote it is sick and malicious for trying to discredit someone with fabricated words.

    I guess it teaches us that we should double-check things.

    John
     
  12. Brian30755

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    Uh, isn't it obvious that Craig made this up in order to prove a point?


    Couldn't it be possible that, instead of "feeding one man's ego", the new building is needed to seat all those who want to come to Church at Central Baptist?
     
  13. JJB

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    Yes, and No.

    I do have to admit that his having invented this to make a point went over my head. Not too bright. But, I am sure he could come up with a better way to make his point.

    John
    (Who keeps forgetting to think twice and post once)
     
  14. Trotter

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    Oh, lot's come to Central. They have multiple services every Sunday. A veritable three ring circus.

    But what are these people being fed? What are they being taught? The pure, unadulterated word of God?

    Not from where I sit, nor by what I hear.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  15. A.J.Armitage

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    That's not Galatians 3:28.

    Here's the real Galatians 3:28:

    That's ESV. The KJV has the same, except "bond" instead of "slave" and "ye" instead of "you". The NASB has "free man" instead of just "free".

    Whatever this guy has is a paraphrase, that is, some dude's opinion about what what Galatians 3:28 means. There's a place for that, but not in the place of Scripture itself.

    What's the difference? What Paul actually wrote is what IS the case, right then, as he wrote, but the paraphrase has him saying what ought to be the case. What Paul actually says is based on union with Christ, the paraphrase bases it on being in a family. What Paul wrote sounds like something a mystic would say, the paraphrase sounds like a platitude-spouting corporate sensitivity trainer.
     
  16. rsr

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    Phillips is quoting from The Message.
     
  17. Brian30755

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    I went to Central a few months ago on a Sunday night. The music program was great. The preaching by Ron Phillips was excellent (from the book of Daniel that night). But I'll not go back to Central, simply because it's not "my kind of church". Not a single person there spoke to me or any member of my family.....not a "glad you're here", "good to see you", "hello"...nothing. Also, it seems to me that the pastor (Dr. Phillips) is totally inaccessible to the congregation. When the service was over, he came down off the platform and (what looked like) several bodyguards escorted him through a door behind the platform. Some people may not mind this, but personally, I like a preacher that will at least stand at the door and shake your hand when you leave.
     
  18. Ben W

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    Yes, and No.

    I do have to admit that his having invented this to make a point went over my head. Not too bright. But, I am sure he could come up with a better way to make his point.

    John
    (Who keeps forgetting to think twice and post once)
    </font>[/QUOTE]I too had no idea that this was made up, no doubt it is for a joke, but it is not a good idea to write things under other peoples names like that. Should that be taken the wrong way as I did inadvertantly take it, this BB could be sued by his ministry for publishing defamation of Ron Phillips.
     
  19. Magnetic Poles

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    I don't know him, but to get back on track, I totally agree with Bro. Phillips. I think that the church has let tradition and outdated societal role definitions interpret scripture. Is a woman not capable of being learned in the Bible and sharing that knowledge? I have heard all too many ill-educated male pastors to discount the message coming from a female. The vessel God uses is not the important part; rather the message he wishes to share with us.
     
  20. patrick

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    Scripture gives us qualifications for a pastor. The Bible teaches us a woman is not usurp authority over a man. The Bible is the unchanging Word of God. We should take heed to God's Word and not the opinion of men.

    I can back my view up with the Word of God. Not conjecture about society and social norms.
     

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