Roots of Freemasonry

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Eladar, Sep 24, 2002.

  1. Eladar

    Eladar
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    This is from FREEMASONRY AND THE NEW AGE WORLD RELIGION

    How can any Christian align himself with a group that denies the sole Lordship of the God of Abraham?

    An even better question, why do Christians call such men brothers?
     
  2. Johnv

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    Not to put a damper on the subject, but the site you listed is far from objective on the subject.

    The Masonic order is not a religion. It does require its members to believe in a higher power and be faithful members in good standing of the churches they are affiliated with. In other words, if you're a Baptist and want to be a freemason, you must be in good standing and an active member of your Baptist congregation. This is not an unusual requirement for membership. The Boy scounts, girl scouts, and other fraternal organizations have similar requirements. Even AA requires that you believe in a higher power, but that makes it neither a religious nor evil organization.

    I could go on about that, but there have been posts-aplenty about that subject. Better to peruse what's already been posted on the subject.

    [ September 24, 2002, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]
     
  3. Eladar

    Eladar
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    but the site you listed is far from objective on the subject.

    That is why I only posted something that was quoted by people within Masonry itself. The quotes speak for themselves.

    The Masonic order is not a religion. It does require its members to believe in a higher power and be faithful members in good standing of the churches they are affiliated with.

    If they are not a religion, then why would they have any religious aspects what so ever? A belief in a higher power is a form of religion.

    The Boy scounts, girl scouts, and other fraternal organizations have similar requirements.

    I had no idea that a boy had to belong to a church in order to become a boy scout.

    I could go on about that, but there have been posts-aplenty about that subject.

    About Masonry itself, or about the quotes that I have posted? It is a conflict for a man to claim he worships the God of the Bible, while having fellowship with men who believe in 'a' god, but rejects the God of the Bible being the only God.

    [ September 24, 2002, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: Tuor ]
     
  4. Eladar

    Eladar
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    Johnv,

    Do you deny that Masons teach that the gods worshipped in all the world's religions are just manefestations of the one deity?

    [ September 24, 2002, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: Tuor ]
     
  5. Johnv

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    I admit only that Masons believe in one Amlighty God.

    To quote the Grand Lodge of England in Freemasonry and Religion, that, while freemasonery is not a religion, 'Freemasonry is far from indifferent to religion. Without interfering in religious practice, it expects each member to follow his own faith, and to place above all other duties his duty to God by whatever name He is known.' Masonry itself makes only a simple religious demand on a man - he must believe that he has an immortal soul and he must believe in God. No atheist can be a Mason." - Dr. Jim Tresner, 33rd degree

    According to the associaton of Freemasons of California, "Masonry is not a religion... We offer no plan of salvation. With the exception of saying that He is a loving Father who desires only good for His children, we make no effort to describe the nature of God. And while we open and close our meetings with prayer, and we teach that no man should ever begin any important undertaking without first seeking the guidance of God, we never tell a man how he should pray or for what he should pray. Instead, we tell him that he must find the answers to these great questions in his own faith, in his church or synagogue or other house of worship. We urge men not to neglect their spiritual development and to be faithful in the practice of their religion."

    I don't know if that answers your question. But your statement could easily apply to the other groups I mentioned. After all, Boy Scouts don't say the Judeo-Christian God is better than the Buddhist or Muslim God.

    The Pledge of Allegience, too, does not specify which God of which religion.

    Yes, Boy Scouts must espouse a faith. One of the Scouts oaths, amontg trustworthy, loyal, brave, clean, etc, is the word reverent. Boy Scouts take an oath to God and Country. The Boy Scouts don't say which God they refer too.

    All of these have one thing in common, that there is one Almighty God. Infer from that what you will.
     
  6. Born Again Catholic

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    You may want to read "Behind the Lodge Door" This is a Satanic organization.
     
  7. Ben W

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    The Salvation Army has made a descion that no Salvationist may be in any way a member of a Masonic lodge. This descion was taken after much study of the groups teachings.

    There are two types of Freemasons, Those under Grand Lodge in England and another order called co-freemasonry. Co-Masons teach they are the descendants of the builders of the pyramids in Egypt. Regular masons cannot fellowship with them because they are believed to be a cult group.

    Ordinary Masons start off in the Blue Lodge and are required to take an oath. Taking Oaths and swearing to punishment if you reveal them, does not follow the guidelines of what Jesus said about oath taking.

    members are blindfolded and put through a ceremony to yield to and be opened by the light of freemasonry. Jesus Christ is the one and only light for the church membership.

    The name of Jesus Christ is removed from masonic hymns. You are not permitted to tell a fellow mason of another religion about Jesus Christ at any Masonic activity. How can any christian be in the presence of a Muslim/hindu etc and not want to share Jesus Christ and eternal Salvation?

    After completing blue lodge degrees you may move on to various other groups, Knights Templar, Rose of Sharon etc all contain teaching.

    In history people have been murdered for revealing information about masonic degrees.

    It is perfectly acceptable for a member of the Spiritualist church to be the grand master of the lodge and to be in leadership of the membership.

    There is heaps of ammunition against freemasonry. Christian freemasons ought to be prepared to look at this material and make an informed descion on the next step for them.
     
  8. Eladar

    Eladar
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    Johnv,

    I admit only that Masons believe in one Amlighty God.

    Would you also admit that according to Mason belief, this Almighty God isn't necessarily called the God of Abraham. In other words, that this God also goes by other names.
     
  9. Johnv

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    Hmmm... You're attempting to paint into a corner, yet, you seemed to gloss over the other points I made. The Masons, The Pledge of Allegience, the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, and Alcoholics Anonymous don't necesserily liken God to the God of Abraham. Condemn them all for that or condemn them not at all.
     
  10. Johnv

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    Ben, I agree that being a member of the Masonic order may conflict with some Christian beliefs. I personally am not in favor of joining any organizations that require you to keep secrets, especially from a spouse. But I know some Masons who are also active Baptists, and if they have been able to resolve that, then more power to them. My point is simply that the Freemasonery is not a religion.

    I also am aware about the co-Masons, and yes, they're a cult in my opinion, and that's a separate issue. The Order of Freemasonery has condemned the co-masons, if I recall.
     
  11. Eladar

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    As far as I know, it isn't the philosophy of those other organizations that there is an Almighty Deity which isn't necessarily the God of the Bible.

    If they do, then I'd have a serious problem with them too.

    Besides, just because others are doing it too, isn't a good reason to do something. As my mom used to say...

    If everyone else jumps off a bridge, does that mean you have to do it too?
     
  12. Eladar

    Eladar
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    Johnv,

    I personally am not in favor of joining any organizations that require you to keep secrets, especially from a spouse. But I know some Masons who are also active Baptists, and if they have been able to resolve that, then more power to them.

    Was thins Paul's instruction for the church in 1 Corinthians 5?
     
  13. Johnv

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    I guess it depends on what one means the "God of the Bible". Personally, any faith that espouses a belief in one almighty God sees just that: One Almighty God. Since there is only one God, I fail to see the problem. If you think that the Almighty God of the Bible and the Almighty God of the Koran are different Gods, then that would be a discussion for a different topic. But The Pladge, AA, Masons, and Scouts make no deference to God being the God of the Bible or not being the God of the Bible. Considering that Muslims and Christians can be masons, can say the pledge, can join AA, and can be in scouts, I fail to see the relevance.

    I just read 1Cor5 and and fail to see the correlation.
     
  14. Multimom

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    I strongly encourage anyone who thinks that there is nothing wrong with the Masonic Lodge that you go to the Christian Research Institute website and type Freemasonry into the search engine.

    I think you will be enlightened with their unbiased approach to their research and you will discover that you have been misled regarding the "religion" of Freemasonry
     
  15. Eladar

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    Personally, any faith that espouses a belief in one almighty God sees just that: One Almighty God. Since there is only one God, I fail to see the problem.

    Johnv,

    Exodus 20:1-2
    According to Masons, Osiris is one of those gods that is just another representation of the Almighty Deity. The worship of Osiris was definitely around during the time when the Ten Commandments was given.

    I just read 1Cor5 and and fail to see the correlation.

    In first Corinthians 5, Paul states that the Christian community should expell those who have no problem with sin in their lives. The man who was having sex with his father's wife had no problem with his sin, yet Paul still said to expell him.
     
  16. Eladar

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  17. Johnv

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    These sites are all from equip.org. Equip.org is considered by many (including myself) to be extremist. A friend of mine wo works at the church we attend tells me that the sites is blocked because it's been categurised an "extremist/activist" site.

    I don't give this site much credit. The fact is, this site disagrees with the SBC, which allows its members to be members of the Masonic order.

    As for Osiris, this is a god from Eqyption beliefs, which is polytheistic. They didn't believe in one God. Still, you glossed over my main point. You seem to put yourself in a catch 22. You've implied that the Masons define a God, and are therefore a religion. Yet even the tabloid links you put up state that Masons make no attempt to define what God is. If an organization doesn't define God, you still say they're a religion.

    Does that mean that AA is a religion? That The Pledge recognizes religion? What about the Elks club? The require a belief in God. The Moose Lodge also requires a belief in a supreme being.

    What about the Boy Scouts? A requisite standard for membership is found in the B.S.A.'s Declaration of Religious Principle (Declaration), which states that "no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God." Recognizing God as the ruling universal power is cumpulsory. A Scout must also respect others' religious beliefs, be "reverent" toward God, and faithful to his own religious duties. These religious standards are applied to adult and youth membership alike.

    Article IX, section 1, clause 4 of the B.S.A. Bylaws specifically states that subscription to the Declaration of Religious Principle is required for entitlement to a leadership position. Yet no where in the Bylaws or Handbook does it define God. So why is the Boy Scouts not an anti-Christian organization?
     
  18. Eladar

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    You've implied that the Masons define a God, and are therefore a religion. Yet even the tabloid links you put up state that Masons make no attempt to define what God is.

    How have I implied that the Masons define a God. They don't define it, other than a God that is beyond any religion's ability to portay it.

    According to Mason belief, the Biblical view of God isn't exactly correct. It is just man's best stab at the true D

    As for Osiris, this is a god from Eqyption beliefs, which is polytheistic.

    You blow this own off don't you. According to God, there is only one God and it is the God of Abraham. No other god exists. Period. To say that there is another god is herecy.

    Besides, why couldn't a patheon of gods be an accurate portrayal of the Supreme Being? According to Masons, nobody has it right, so why is being less right or more right important.

    Article IX, section 1, clause 4 of the B.S.A. Bylaws specifically states that subscription to the Declaration of Religious Principle is required for entitlement to a leadership position. Yet no where in the Bylaws or Handbook does it define God. So why is the Boy Scouts not an anti-Christian organization?

    I see that you ignore Exodus 20 in favor of the "If eveyone else is doing it, I can do it too" argument.

    Johnv,

    Do you get what I meant by 1 Corinthians 5 now?
     
  19. Dualhunter

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    Equip.org is simply conservative evangelical. It would be interesting to see what other members of the the SBC think of that. As Tuor said "According to Masons, nobody has it right", as such they deny Jesus' claim to be the way, the truth and the life. Whereas a group such as the boyscouts would allow members to make such a denial, it would appear that in the case of the Masons, it is a believe of the organization and thus Christians should not be a part of the organization.
     
  20. Johnv

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    1 Cor 5 talks about associating with sinners. I don't believe the stance that these groups take is a sinful stance.

    I see that you ignore Exodus 20 in favor of the "If eveyone else is doing it, I can do it too" argument.

    I do no such thing. Exodus 20 doesn't apply to these organizations because they're NOT RELIGIONS!!! Do you condemn these groups for their stances or not? You can't condemn one without condemning them all.

    [ September 25, 2002, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]
     

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