Ruckmanites lying about David Cloud..................again

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by Ex-Fundy, Jul 9, 2007.

  1. Ex-Fundy

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    I received this via e-mail today from David Cloud and I thought some of you might want to know about it.

    You know, I think it's pretty bad that the followers of Peter S. Ruckman would stoop to the level of lying about someone like that. David Cloud is one of the more sane voices of Fundamentalism. I know, some of the people that use this board do not like him, But I like the guys writings, I don't agree with all of it. But he's bit more sane than Ruckman's off the wall nonsense.

    Just thought I'd pass this along...

    -Ex-Fundy
     
  2. Bro. Williams

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    poor wittle davey...

    just joking. Just to make it clear, since I do enjoy Ruckman's preaching etc, I am not one of the one's guitly of this. Honestly, I don't even know much about davey cloud other than that he has a really good "Way of Life" Encyclopedia and about a million articles.
     
  3. Pastor Larry

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    Given Cloud's penchant for dishonesty about others, we could claim this is a "good for the goose, good for the gander" situation. But even at that, it is unacceptable. Cloud and Ruckman are both examples of people who will stop at virtually nothing to propound their own human intellect over the authority of Scripture. It would be better for both to stop.

    Cloud has some good stuff (unlike Ruckman who has nothing good that I am aware of). It is unfortunate that Cloud is graceless in his speech far too often, and that he does not tell the truth about other people with whom he disagrees.
     
  4. tinytim

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    I absolutely agree....

    The best thing for Christians to do is stay out of their fights...
    Both are extremists, and should be avoided.
     
  5. TomVols

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    Pastor Larry wrote:
    Post of the day! Spot on, Pastor Larry:thumbs:
     
  6. EdSutton

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    Pot: "You're black!"

    Kettle: "No, You're black!"

    Pot: "You're blacker than I am!"

    Kettle: "No, you're the one who is blacker than I am!"

    Pot: "Well then, your blackness is blacker than mine!"

    Kettler: "Actually, your blackness is the one that is the blac...!"

    Ed
     
  7. tinytim

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    OR...

    "You are a heretic"

    "No, you are a heretic"

    "Well, you are a hairier tic than me"

    "No, you are the most hairest tic"

    "YOU are the mostestester hariest tic"
     
  8. av1611jim

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    By using mockery rather than honest criticism are ye not then made partakers in the sins which ye are mocking?

    Just a thought.
     
  9. tinytim

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    A good thought at that....

    I just don't see how people can take their fight seriously... both are too extreme for me....

    IMO
     
  10. av1611jim

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    Both men IMO have contributed much toward evangelizing the lost. I cannot fault them for their sincere efforts to see men saved from sin and hell. Yet, I too, have issues with SOME of their teaching.

    Just because one may have issues with any given preacher should not mean we discount them altogether. Were this not so then we would have to discount ALL preachers of any stripe.

    I do not hold any man up as an ideal I would like to emmulate, except maybe Paul for he did say "be ye followers of me even as I follow Christ."

    It would be nice if we could find a man contemporary with our time whom we could follow in the manner in which Paul meant but I am afraid there are none who are worthy. Alas, it is unfortunate for the Body of Christ at large. I do NOT say we should follow a man just because he says so. I try to follow Christ in my everyday life. That being said; the two men of this thread have disqualified themselves all too often for us to follow their examples.
     
  11. Bro. Williams

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    I will say this in regards to Dr. Ruckman's ministry and work:

    Understandably most of Doc's work has to be taken with a grain of salt. Some like the salt, some don't. I understand this and realize it. Just the same for some other author's and preachers. I can't stand Lucado, I have my reasons, like many have their reasons concerning Doc.

    And, even though many consider Doc to be absolutely worthless and no good, I am thankful for him for the fact that he is one of two men that aided in setting me on the right path. I don't even mean in regards to the KJV or anything really deep. I simply mean in regards to seeking God and trying to be a faithful Christian.

    Some things reach some men, other things reach other men. I was encouraged as a young christian for the fact that Doc stood and stood hard. That he was without apology and was unwavering. That he was firm and to the point even in the face of ridicule and constant turmoil with the brethren (of some which has caused, I know). As some men are reached by elequent reasoning, some by sincere emotion, others by personal study, still some by simple conviction, etc etc, I was always moved as a young man, by "in your face" approaches and "point blank" confrontation. I am sure this is why he appealed to me personally, as some preachers appealed to others personally based on their susceptibility to certain approaches as well.

    With all this said, the world can say, Christians can say, whoever can say, that Doc has never done one good thing... but he has. Even if I am the only one that has ever been moved and pushed into service and labour, study and learning, witnessing and evangelism, passion and perseverance by Doc, then he has done one thing worthwhile.

    Well now, I guess that is worth about 2 cents or less to most, but one need give credit where credit is due.

    BTW, I understand the issues with the extremes and no, I don't follow Doc to a "t" by any means and even I do wish that some things were done differently. But, as someone wisely said on here, there are no preachers who are free of mistakes to some extent or another. Thank God for the good that does come, pray for the bad that comes with it.
     
    #11 Bro. Williams, Jul 10, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2007
  12. npetreley

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    Which part of Ruckman's beliefs do you admire most? The part about how differences between KJV versions are not corrections but advanced revelations? Or the parts about how he believes there are blue aliens with blue blood, black aliens with green blood, or gray aliens with clear blood? Or maybe it's the part about how the Goverment mafia is going to kill him?
     
  13. Rippon

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    Ruckman has disqualified himself from the ministry many times over . He apparently is not accountable to anyone . ( Of course he would say the Lord ) . But if one actually goes along in accordance with the Word of God in the KJV , NIV or any other version translated by God-fearing scholars -- Ruckman has not measured-up in ages . That is unless you are dismissive of the Pastoral Epistles -- but that would be dangerous .
     
  14. Bro. Williams

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    npaerjupy: I listed what I appreciated and wish not to go into it further with the likes of you.
     
  15. Rippon

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    Npet , BW likes you !
     
  16. HaveSwordWillTravel

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    Drawing Lines in the Sand

    While I know nothing about Cloud, I do know way too much about Ruckman and his claims.

    Let me say this, I am pro-KJV. I use it and I preach from it (when the opportunity shows up anymore). However, I attend a church that uses the NKJV and has several members that are NIV Positive. The fellowship is awesome and the church, IMHO, is balanced and Biblically centered.

    With that said, Ruckman has done the modern church a great diservice. In his writings and, unfortunately, in one Christian colleges publictions, he has made the Version debate a point of separation for believers.

    While I understand the man's desire to "defend" God's Word, he has also done more to alienate believers from one another that probably any other issue in the last 20 years. If someone doesn't bow down to the KJV...he is a heretic. I grew up KJV only and I understand the argument, but come on. Get a little historical perspective here.

    Other Bibles should be translated from the KJV?

    It's bad enough that the World, the Flesh, and the Devil want to take a chunk out of us, but why do we have to gut each other internally?
     
  17. HaveSwordWillTravel

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    Drawing Lines in the Sand

    Sorry, apparently I double posted...still getting a feel for the forum.
     
  18. Bro. Williams

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    General question for the board as a whole:

    are there any supporters of Ruckman (whole or in part) here?
     
  19. tinytim

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    i'm not... IMO he's a false prophet at worse, a kook at best...
     
  20. rbell

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    Probably not too many. Glad your impressions of him are positive.

    And, in respect of your association with him, I'll leave it at that.
     

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