Russia firing artillery at Ukraine military targets

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by Revmitchell, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
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    Obama administration officials said Thursday that Russia is firing artillery from its own territory into Ukraine to hit Ukrainian military sites, pointing to escalating Russian involvement in the deadly conflict.

    "This clearly is a military escalation," Pentagon spokesman Col. Steve Warren said, adding there is no question that Russian military -- as opposed to Russia-backed separatists -- are firing the shots.

    State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf first made the accusation during a press briefing earlier Thursday. She also claimed Moscow is boosting its military shipments to pro-Russian separatists.

    "We have new evidence that the Russians intend to deliver heavier and more powerful multiple rocket launchers to separatist forces in Ukraine and have evidence that Russia is firing artillery from within Russian to attack Ukrainian military positions," Harf told reporters.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...firing-artillery-at-ukraine-military-targets/
     
  2. poncho

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    Obama administration officials have said lots of things that aren't true.

    Did he provide proof? Did Fox ask if he had any and if they could see it?

    Is this the same Marie Harf who just admitted their evidence comes from "social media" sites? Did Fox question her about that admission?

    New evidence? Is it like their old "social media" evidence? Did Fox ask her that?

    Translated: We found new youtube and facebook evidence the Ukrainian government posted and we don't want to admit that we get our intell from facebook and youtube . . . again.

    Did Fox ask how it was confirmed? Did they ask to see the evidence that confirms it?

    Allegations. Now that's the correct word. Because without evidence that's all they are.

    But they haven't proven their accusations to be anything more than allegations and they haven't proven their allegations are anything more than accusations.

    Of course she did because the Obama administration is hoping people have forgotten it was they and their banker buddies in the EU and IMF that backed the "rebels" who violently overthrew an elected government so they could loot Ukraine and put a NATO base and missile batteries there aimed at Russia.

    Wonder if they'll ask the Ukrainians to turn over the air traffic control tapes they confiscated so we can all hear them for ourselves while they're at it?

    Not a word about demanding the Ukrainians cooperate with an investigation huh? Figures.

    Hate to tell you this Rev but this isn't reporting all this is is the media repeating what the government says without question. That's what's known as "catapulting the propaganda", a term George W. Bush used when his neocon administration was "fixing the evidence" to follow their agenda.

    Real reporters ask questions, Fox just repeats what "officials" say and Obama administration "officials" have a reputation for telling lies.

    How about showing us some proof instead of more accusations and allegations by people who have already shown a propensity to lie about everything?
     
    #2 poncho, Jul 24, 2014
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  3. poncho

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    Found that proof yet? You've had all day and half the night to find it. So, where is it?
     
  4. poncho

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  5. poncho

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    Where's the proof Rev?

    How about another non news article to pass the time while we wait for you to find the proof?

    Don't just leave us all hanging in suspense.
     
    #5 poncho, Jul 27, 2014
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  6. poncho

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    During the past several days, there has not been a single report out of Ukraine of an artillery strike against any of their military bases, anywhere in the country. The last such incident was two weeks ago, when rebels fired a BM-21 grad at a military base.

    And this is Ukraine we’re talking about, which comes up with its own dubious stories of Russian attacks on a near daily basis. If Russia has carried out concerted shelling against Ukrainian military targets, Ukraine would be harping on about it constantly. They aren’t even alleging anything close to that is happening.

    The latest invented story appears to have been produced primarily as a replacement for Harf’s increasingly debunked allegations surrounding the MH17 shoot-down, a talking point which has gained her no small mocking in the press over the past week, as she directly contradicts the US intelligence community’s own releases on the matter.

    Harf’s latest allegations included the phantom artillery fire and secret evidence of Russia planning to maybe send a bunch more weapons to the rebels. One member of the assembled press, humorously, asked if there was “a YouTube video or something that you can point us to,” calling back to Harf’s regular use of social media as “proof” for her claims.

    Harf declared “I just said I wasn’t going to give you the underlying source,” and asked if the press preferred she keep things to herself that she can’t prove. This led to another exchange, with someone shooting back “Marie, I think that it would be best for all concerned here if when you make an allegation like that, you’re able to back it up with something more than just “because I said so.”

    Read More At: http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/24/us-state-department-tells-lies-justify-war/

    Hey I just had idea Rev, maybe if you call Marie Harf and ask her to point you to which youtube video she is willing to provide as evidence to back her claims maybe you won't have to look so foolish for taking the word of people you and your neocon buddies have repeatedly accused of being unrepentant pathological liars or something to that effect.

    Just an idea. Even if it proves nothing at all in the end at least you can say you tried.
     
    #6 poncho, Jul 27, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2014
  7. Gina B

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    Poncho, I am curious as to what type of proof you would find acceptable on this one.
    There is the word of those in Ukraine, but you say they lie.
    There are pictures, but haven't you said pictures can be altered?
    There are videos, but you've said videos can be manipulated.

    And of course, the media can't be trusted.

    To a point, pictures, video, the media - much caution needs to be used with all of them. But if you're going to totally invalidate all of them as proof, what is it you want as proof? I have been looking at reports and seeing photos of bodies. Because it is social media, does this make it invalid?

    If you do a search you can find them. What invalidates them for you? Do you seriously think the photos are all faked, or that they are killing and posing their own or something? Please explain this.
     
  8. poncho

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    Uh gee Gina I dunno, maybe being lied to about Iraq, Libya, Syria and just about every other country Washington has either "bombed into the stone age" or outfitted terrorist elements in those nations to do their bombing and killing for them has made me a bit distrustful of the Washington warmongers that have led us into one failed bloody conflict after another.

    But . . .

    For starters the State Dept could do as the Russians have done and show us their own satellite images then maybe come up with some kind of graphics with an explanation of why they believe what they are saying is true. The fact that they haven't and said in effect "trust us we're the government" instead doesn't sway me to put much faith in their words.

    Instead of claiming "national security" like it has always done in the past when Washington has been feeding us lies and setting us up for yet another unconstitutional illegal military intervention Washington could show us their evidence if indeed they have any at all.

    "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" How many times do we have to be neconned before we all get incinerated in a nuclear fire?

    "Trust us we're the government" just doesn't work for me anymore.

    Don't you find it a bit odd that the same people here who have been calling Obama and his administration "a pack of liars" have suddenly taken sides with them and started acting as Obama's "echo chamber" now that there might be a chance to start a war with those we've been conditioned by the government and media to hate and fear over the last 40 or 50 years?

    I don't know about you but I believe the prospects of getting into a nuclear exchange with Russia should be based on harder evidence than Washington and those who have gained a reputation for lying us into numerous other conflicts have given us so far.

    And what about all the evidence of Washington and the State Dept (USAID and NED) aiding and abetting those who used violence to overthrow the elected government of Ukraine only to be replaced by "favored" oligarchs and those with ties to the private global bankster cartel that controls the "world's economy" in violation of our laws and common sense that is several hundred years old? Oh but nobody wants to talk about that big pile of evidence because it doesn't fit the "mainstream" narrative of "big bad Russia being the only aggressor" over there.

    Washington has the blood of millions on it's hands and has gained a reputation for lying us into one conflict after another. So what makes you think this time is any different Gina?
     
    #8 poncho, Jul 27, 2014
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  9. Gina B

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    I agree on the satellite images, but they would need to be released by both parties for comparison. Who is to say they would not be altered?
    Yes, I find it curious that it is playing out this way. Practically at the beginning of Obama's reign, it looked like he wanted to lead us into war with Russia. I did NOT see it happening this way though and his actions during it are confusing. I don't think he saw it this way either. I am still trying to figure that one out. The pieces aren't fitting yet.
     
  10. poncho

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    Look at who his "advisors" are Gina. The original Russian haters themselves.

    Zbigniew Brzeziski and Henry Kissenger and a host of neocon warmogers that see no problem at all getting us involved in, at last count 79 active interventions around the world be they either covert or overt that's known about.

    These guys have been aching to start a war with Russia for years. They told Russia, "no we won't expand NATO into your sphere of influence" then started working on doing it no sooner than the words fell from their lips! They've been encircling Russia with missile launchers and NATO bases all the while claiming Russia is the only aggressor. Now if Russia or another country were doing that to us we'd be screaming bloody murder from all the rooftops in Washington DC and rightly so! I'm tired of all the hypocrisy and lies coming from these people.

    They are consummate liars and manipulators Gina. The world and humanity in general would be better served if we arrested them and put them on trial for all the war crimes they've committed so far rather than allowing them, helping them to start another war that will surely turn out badly for all involved.

    Consider the nature of these people Gina. There is no truth or love in them at all. Look at their fruits, death, destruction and misery on a global scale. Why should I a Christian yoke myself to these black hearted creatures? Haven't I been commanded by almighty God not to?

    Haven't we been warned by Jesus himself not to part in the works of darkness?

    And what about the constitution? Are we to just ignore it and wage war on anyone for anything on the word of proven liars and manipulators?
     
    #10 poncho, Jul 27, 2014
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  11. Gina B

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    But what about China? China is supposed to fit into this, aligned with Russia against us. The timing, the players he seemed to be setting up aren't set up yet.
     
  12. poncho

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    Why wouldn't China take sides with Russia? Hasn't Washington been rattling it's sabers at them also?

    Is the United States the only country allowed to have interests in other parts of the world?

    Washington needs an enema Gina. We need to clean out all the warmongering corporatists in both parties and take our republic out of the hands of the oligarchs that have seized control of it and our military and are turning it into a big brother total surveillance police state cesspool where freedom is no longer an option for any of us.

    It's either that or "duck and cover" and get ready to engage a nation or nations with nuclear capabilities unlike the practically helpless nations we're used to picking fights with. And maybe you haven't noticed but Washington can't even win a war against the nations it's destroyed already!

    That doesn't give me much confidence in our "leaders" abilities to keep us all from getting killed in another war we don't need to start.

    All this time I thought Christians were supposed to be the peace makers not the warmongers. But reading these pages over the last few years makes the claim of Christians being the peace makers look like nothing but another kooky "conspiracy theory" where all the evidence points in the other direction but few seem to notice.

    I dunno maybe a nuclear war is what it will take to wake some people up, I just hope we don't all get killed in the process.
     
    #12 poncho, Jul 27, 2014
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  13. Gina B

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    That is why I am saying this thing with Ukraine doesn't fit, and neither does Obama's attitude at the moment. I don't see China against us yet, and totally aligned with Russia, the way it seemed to have been being set up.
    It is almost as if events as of late have thrown things off, pushed things forward.
     
  14. poncho

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    I've made the suggestion several times that people go read the documents and "policy papers" put out by the corporate/bankster sponsored think tanks in charge of formulating "our" foreign policy.

    So far there's been no takers that I know of. They have offered a hundred and one excuses as to why they can't or won't though.

    Such as the old fallback "conspiracy theory" excuse and the "oh it's just more liberal tripe" excuse.

    I mean gee golly wow man how much more in your face does it have to get than the Brookings Institute spelling out in detail what's going to be happening in the middle east long before it becomes "news"?

    Google up Brookings and read "Which Parth To Persia" or get yourself a copy of "The Grand Chessboard" and read it in context of what we've seen happening.

    These guys keep no hidden secrets as my detractors are so found of claiming it's all hidden in plain sight but they refuse to even look at it because they might have to do their own thinking instead of having their opinions downloaded directly into their brains by the warmongers in Washington and the corporate "mockingbird" media.

    Hey, I just noticed the Rev posted another Faux Snews article so I know he's on board, so uh are you going to keep us all waiting forever before you show us the proof or what Rev?
     
    #14 poncho, Jul 27, 2014
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  15. poncho

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    Another State Department Hoax?

    Another State Department Hoax?

    Paul Craig Roberts

    I have an email that purports to be from the State Department Press Office. It is dated today, Sunday, July 27, 2014 at 8:45 AM EDT

    It reads:

    State Department Press Corps:

    Sharing with you the attached document with DNI images — evidence of Russia firing into Ukraine.

    Regards,

    State Department Press Office

    There is a 1.1MB file attached with pictures and a few words saying that the pictures indicate Russian firing into Ukraine territory.

    As one with news and government experience, I am confident that information as important as this purports to be would not be released in this way. For several days reporters have been asking State Department press office spokeswoman Marie Harf for evidence to back her claims that Russian military is attacking Ukrainian forces. Harf has told the reporters that she cannot provide evidence. In other words, Harf’s evidence is like John Kerry’s evidence that he could never provide that Assad had used chemical weapons.

    Suddenly the evidence appears in an email and is spread via social media. This is not credible. Such evidence if it actually exists would be released in a Washington press conference by top government officials with experts present to explain the meaning of the photos to the journalists and to answer questions. No real journalists, if any are left, are going to believe that such hot information would be released in an email. Moreover, the photos are meaningless to the uninitiated, and there is no way to judge their authenticity.

    Additionally, it is not credible that such important information would be released at a news dead time–8:45 AM EDT on a Sunday morning when the West Coast is still asleep.

    What are we to make of this?

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/27/another-state-department-hoax-paul-craig-roberts/

    Sorry Rev didn't mean to cheat you out of your "big find" or anything.
     
    #15 poncho, Jul 27, 2014
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  16. poncho

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    Found that proof yet Rev? No, not yet? Okay that's cool I find the sound of crickets kinda soothing anyway. Take your time, there's no rush.
     
  17. poncho

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    Still nothing Rev? Maybe you just need more time eh?
     
  18. poncho

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  19. poncho

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    Seven months and no evidence yet Rev?
     
  20. carpro

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    If we could get Paul Craig Roberts to say it, Poncho would buy it in a heartbeat.

    Other good sources would be prison planet and infowars. :thumbs:
     

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