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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Eric B, May 10, 2006.
More options added
I don't see my answer among the options.
And what was that? I thought this was all of them. Perhaps yours is represented there, but not in the exact way you would word it. For instance in the last one, Chemnitz said:
But in the last poll, that would have fallen under "We need to keep the Law of God but the Sabbath doesn't matter anymore". I changed this to "... but the Sabbath has been omitted from it", and then added "but it is just any day you choose out of 7" to be more precise.
I'd say that freedom from the Law does not release us from moral action and thought and merciful and just treatment of others, so no the Law isn't "abolished," yet strict adherence to a code of religious ethics for the sake of those religious ethics is a form of idolatry.
Conversely, claiming that "the law still aplies" calls into question why a Sabbath-Keeper doesn't refrain from eating shellfish, pork, wearing clothing of two different materials, burnt offerings, festivals, fasts... in other words, if the "law still applies," then all of the law still applies with equal force.
So there is no good answer to that poll in my opinion.
The SDA's position is that "The Law" is only "all the laws except for the Ten Commandments". I reject that as well, but this poll really wasn't the place to get into that argument. So of you believe that the Law is no longer binding, but we are not released from moral action, you would probably go with my choice (which I added):
The Law of Moses was for Old covenant Israel only, and has been "fulfilled", and the sabbath was apart of that law only, so is no longer binding. That is not saying there is no more moral law (outside of that), and I was considering adding what I have said elsehwere about the universal law, but that was a bit much to squeeze into the choice, and once again, this is really not the place for it.
the ten commandments are moral laws.
if you dont keep the sabbath on the seventh day (as explained in exodus 20:9-12) then you are not moral.
im exaggerating a bit. sometimes in exaggeration we see ourselves most clearly.
The Law of God still applies to us today and so does the 7th Day Sabbath
That was my vote (of course)
But in the last poll, that would have fallen under "We need to keep the Law of God but the Sabbath doesn't matter anymore". I changed this to "... but the Sabbath has been omitted from it", and then added "but it is just any day you choose out of 7" to be more precise. </font>[/QUOTE]The ten commandments still apply today but which day is kept as the sabbath is left up to the person as a matter of Christian freedom. -- This principle, in principle - axiomatically - confirms the ONLY Seventh Day Sabbath of the Scriptures: That now, the Christian no longer believes or try to keep the Sabbath of the Scriptures - the only one it ever presupposes - because lashed by the Law to do so; but because having through Christ received the freedom to do so. It does not allow this freeman to change God's order to his own preferences. That wouldn't be Christian freedom, but subjection to rebellion.
I go along with everything you say, but stop before where you go astray and contradict yourself completely. It is here:
"The Law of Moses was for Old covenant Israel only, and has been "fulfilled", and the sabbath was apart of that law only, so is no longer binding[/b]." You should have said - to be consistent: The Law of Moses was for Old covenant Israel, and has been "fulfilled", and the sabbath was apart of that law, so is no longer BY THAT LAW, binding, BUT BY THE NEW Testament Law, which is the Risen and Living Christ: God's eternal indestructable WORD IN PERSON. What greater confirmation of God's Specific Seventh Day Sabbath could be asked for?
Yes, seeing that you are back; I forgot to include something like that for you. But that is an altogether separate choice from all the others, including mine.
Christian freedom is following Christ - following Christ through death and grave and resurrection from the dead, in every respect of life - of the life of His Body the Church. The Sabbath inescapably is prerequisite and prerogative of this LIFE. Don't ever come with Sunday - Sunday is the popes day of authority; his came by intolerance and persecution and drudgery; Christ's Day came through resurrection from the dead and salvation as the completion (of true origin) of all the works of God. Sola Scriptura; solus Christus!
#1. The Law of God - the Ten Commandments are a UNIT in the OT - so either you need to Abolish God's Law (which can not be done) or honor it!
#2. In Exodus 20 - He speaks these 10 commandment directly to His people.
#3. In James 2 we see them quoted.
#4. In Eph 6 we see them -
#5. In Romans 7 we see them.
NEVER do we see ANY NT writer saying "slice and dice the Ten commandments up into tiny bits LIKE THIS".
In Rev 12 and 14 we see the point made repeatedly that God's people AFTER the cross are known as those that keep His Commandments.
In Joh 14:15 God the Son says that IF WE LOVE Him we MUST keep His Commandments!
God is not opposing God in this pre-cross statement of Christ. It is the one true God speaking - hear ye Him!
Well the Sabbath was instituted at creation for all of mankind, to begin with.
1: Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2: And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3: And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
And Jesus dying on the cross didnt make the Creator of heaven and earth any less our Creator and our Authority.
I dont know why everyone seems to understand that since Jesus died on the cross we still cant worship idols but for some reason they cant understand that since Jesus died onthe cross still cant neglect God's Sabbath.
God is still our Creator and God still wants us to remember that and commemorate it every 7th day just like He said to do.
Just like J.N. Andrews said: "The importance of the Sabbath as the memorial of creation is that it keeps ever present the true reason why worship is due to God" (because He is the Creator, and we are His creatures). "The Sabbath therefore lies at the very foundation of divine worship, for it teaches this great truth in the most impressive manner, and no other institution does this. The true ground of divine worship, not of that on the seventh day merely, but of all worship, is found in the distinction between the Creator and His creatures. This great fact can never become obsolete, and must never be forgotten."--J. N. Andrews, History of the Sabbath, chapter 27
A person had better have an awfully good reason and plenty of Scripture support to back up his claim that it is allright to venture to change or leave out one of God's Commandments, the very Commandment that points to God as our Creator.
The 7th day Sabbath is God's Seal. A seal contains a name, title and territory, such as George Bush, President of the United States.
God’s seal from the fourth commandment has His name "Lord," His title is Creator and His territory "heaven and earth."
Romans 4:11 says that a seal is a "sign".
Ezekiel 20:12,20 tells us the Sabbath is a sign or a seal between God and man.
Revelation 7:2,3 talks about the seal of the living God and points our those who, at the end of time, are sealed in their foreheads.
Revelation 14:6-12 gives the three angels warning for the last people on earth: Verse 6 tells us of the "judgment," which involves the Law of God, and calls us to worship the Creator, quoting right from the fourth commandment, the Sabbath commandment. In Verse 8 "Babylon" or the fallen churches which contain error, have rejected some or all of the Law of God; and finally Verse 9 Those who worship the beast through partial obedience to God, receive a mark, in contrast to those who receive the seal of God.
This is the same messages as was the Elijah Message. If God be God then worship Him, if Baal is God, then worship him. God is the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth and all that in them is.
And things never change, just like in times of old... What charge was brought against Elijah?
"And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah, that Ahab said unto him, Art thou he that troubleth Israel?" And Elijah answered, I have not troubled Israel; but thou, and thy father's house, in that ye have forsaken the commandments of the LORD, and thou hast followed Baalim." 1 Kings 18:17,18
That's not a command, that's an example that would be used later.
It's not taking the Ten and cutting some of them out, but rather there were only seven universal laws before Moses, and those are basically what we follow.
That's why some of them are quoted in the NT.
That's ISRAEL, not all of man.
Notice, the HAND is omited from there. It's not about aparticular work, even though we are still to do works, they are not what seal us.
(Works are what seal one with the mark of the Beat, but according to you, even if one kept neither Sabbath nor sunday--which is most peopl ein the world, they would still have the mark).
That's not QUOTING from the commandment. God is not creater of heaven and the earth and the sea just because of the sabbath command. That was a formula used elsewhere for God, such as Psalms 69:34, 69:11, 135:6 & 146:6. These say nothing about the sabbath, but maybe those with the seal of God are those whop pray for their enemies to be blotted out of the book of the living, for that's what the first one was a part of. But that's not what Jesus taught us!
In Exodus 20 God says that Sabbath oblication is centred in the Gen 2:3 act of God in MAKING the day Holy!
That is impossible to ignore.
The Sabbath is Christ the Creator's OWN memorial. it is HE that chooses it as a day for "ALL MANKIND" to come before Him to Worship (Isaiah 66).
It is HE who says HE MADE it "FOR MANKIND not MANKIND for the SABBATH".
These points are impossible to refute or ignore.
Is that supposed to be a "quote of me"??
What about Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as youself".
DID "I" supposedly say "you don't need to keep that Law any more - just the Ten Commandments".
What about Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart".
DID "I" supposedly say "you don't need to keep that Law any more - just the Ten Commandments".
You need to accurately state the opposing view and then make a logical case opposing it - making stuff up wont suffice.
Might as well toss in my two pfennings since I voted.
The late Dr. Oliver B. Greene was once asked, "Bro. Greene - don't you keep the Sabbath?"
His priceless response was "I keep every day!"
Well said, and I've never heard it said better!
im sure that guy isn't perfect and didn't keep everyday though...
That would be nice if God has said in the fourth commandment to keep every day as the Sabbath, but He didnt say that, did He?