Sabbath question based on creation

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by NateT, Feb 15, 2005.

  1. NateT

    NateT
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2000
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    0
    As I've looked at the Male/Female roles in minsitry, people typically appeal to the fact that the man is to be the head of the wife becaue Paul appeals to the creation order. In other words, they say, it is not cultural because creation wasn't cultural.

    eg:
    Following this line of thinking, would it be possible to say that the Earth was created in 6 literal days? Because as I was reading through Exodus this morning, I saw this:
    If this line of thinking cannot be used, why not?

    Thanks
     
  2. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,972
    Likes Received:
    129
    Nick, the text can be used to support a literal day but it doesn't have to be read that way either. It's not a slam dunk proof text.

    Some say that the text's emphasis is on a pattern, not equivalence. It is a unit for unit comparison between the creation days and our days.

    That fact that God is majestic and surpasses all moral abilities is a given. The small step to imagine His day as grander than our day doesn’t take much imagination. In fact under the inspiration of the Spirit, Moses wrote that a thousand years in His sight is like yesterday (Psalm 90:4).

    So it doesn't necessarily stand that 24-hour intervals were involved in the first six `days'.

    Study the celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles: The time of celebration symbolizes the wilderness wanderings. (Lev. 23:39-43).

    The seven days of our calendar week simply follow the same pattern established by God.

    "The high priests of Israel served at a sanctuary that is `a copy and shadow of what is in heaven' (Hebrews 8:5).

    Rob
     
  3. av1611jim

    av1611jim
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    So it doesn't necessarily stand that 24-hour intervals were involved in the first six `days'.

    __________________________________________________

    Unless of course "evening and morning" don't REALLY mean "evening and morning".

    When anybody worldwide hears "the evening and the morning were the first day"; just what do you suppose they are going to equivocate it with?

    HMMM?

    If a "day" is as a thousand years, then WHICH PART is the "evening" and WHICH PART is the "morning"?

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  4. NateT

    NateT
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2000
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wasn't looking for a "proof text" and a slam dunk. However, as I look at the idea as a whole, I want to see how different verses come into play. If there were a true "slam dunk" verse, then there would be no debate, at least not among the regenerate [​IMG]
     
  5. Phillip

    Phillip
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,708
    Likes Received:
    0
    In my opinion, you can't get much more "slam dunk" than this:

    "the evening and the morning were the first day"
     
  6. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,972
    Likes Received:
    129
    (Sorry for misspelling your name NATE).

    Are there any verses in Scripture where the phrase "morning and evening" is used to describe a period of time more than one day?

    Rob
     
  7. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2002
    Messages:
    3,348
    Likes Received:
    14
    Morning could be just the beginning of a day.
    How can there be a morning before the creation of the Sun?
    Why doesn't the 7th day have an evening?
     
  8. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,972
    Likes Received:
    129
    Note Daniel’s use of the phrase, “the evenings and the mornings” (Daniel 8:26).

    Many versions add the plural to the phrase, since it makes more sense to our modern ears.
    But the KJV translates the phrase as it was written in the original language, the same way it is found in the opening chapter of Genesis.
    The phrase, "the evening and the morning" is an idiomatic expression and like the Hebrew word yom, can ‘literally’ be used to express the idea of a long period of time.

    Extra points on the quiz: How long was Daniel's "evening and morning"?

    Rob
     
  9. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Messages:
    2,782
    Likes Received:
    0
    We like to think we know the nuances of the translation. But what if, in the far off dim past of the original penning of Genesis, the words we now translate "evening and morning" really meant something else, like "starting" and "stopping" . . . .how would we be able to tell?
     
  10. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    I'd like to know how those plants and fruit-bearing trees survived a thousand year night from the third day, waiting til the fourth day??
    DHK
     
  11. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,972
    Likes Received:
    129
    I'm guessing that you are not really anxious about finding an answer to your question.

    Idioms are a manner of speaking that is natural to native speakers of a language but whose meanings cannot generally be inferred from the meanings of the words that make it up. In a foreign language, literal translations of the phrases could communicate the words but would miss the meaning of the phrase. Idioms are not unbiblical. They can be quite humorous (and wrong) if taken literally in their plain sense.

    Here is a short quiz:

    The meaning of the idiom rub the wrong way is:</font>
    • to touch someone else inappropriately</font>
    </font>
    • to irritate someone</font>
    </font>
    • to go against the grain or the nap of the fur</font>
    The meaning of the idiom blow up is: </font>
    • to lose one's temper</font>
    </font>
    • to explode or demolish</font>
    </font>
    • to fill with air</font>
    The meaning of the idiom down-to-earth is:</font>
    • to be solidly on the ground</font>
    </font>
    • to reach soil or dirt</font>
    </font>
    • realistic, interested in everyday occurrences</font>
    The meaning of the idiomatic exclamation, whacko! is:</font>
    • excellent, delightful</font>
    </font>
    • to be crazy, strange, uncontrolled</font>
    </font>
    • a small town in Texas (well almost)</font>
    “…Saul went in to cover his feet” (1 Samuel 24:3) means:</font>
    • Saul’s feet were cold and he covered them.</font>
    </font>
    • to put shoes on.</font>
    </font>
    • to relieved himself, or to use another idiom, “went to the bathroom”</font>

    Except for the last questions all of the answers could be correct.
    The answer to the last question is "relieved himself"

    The idiom "morning and evening" doesn't have to be one loooong day!

    Rob

    [ February 19, 2005, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: Deacon ]
     

Share This Page

Loading...