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Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by donnA, Jul 21, 2005.
What do you say the biblical difference is?
I've noticed some seem not to know.
According to Scripture if you are saved, you are a saint. You may sin, but you are still a saint.
¶ Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
In HIS service;
Aaah, But I am still a sinner, saved by grace.
I agree with DHK. I'm still a sinner, but I'm a saint.
I've heard it said that when we are saved we are no longer sinners but saints. I suppose that's true as well. The only think that's not true is that we never stop sinning, even after we become saints.
A Christian brother and I got into a debate about the same thing. "He said a Christian can't sin". I told him a Christian can sin and I quoted Romans 3:23, "for all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God". He said that wasn't what it meant, I told him to explain it, he couldn't. I told him he was wrong and I was right. He reminded me he was a Bible teacher. I just left it at that.
I think the word sinner is an unsaved person, not just a person who sins. Saint is a christian, someone who has been saved, just because they still sinner they are not a 'sinner'.
1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Paul considered himself not only a sinner, but the chief of sinners.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
We are all sinners, saved and unsaved alike.
The only difference between the saved and the unsaved is that the saved are sinners saved by the grace of God. Our sin nature will never be eradicated until we reach heaven.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners; it is what we are. By His grace, we are also saints.
Amen! That's the kind of faith I want to have!!!
I just saw the post when I signed on and thought I could add something to the discussion.
Luther said (I may miss the spelling if some of you know your Latin well?).
"Simul Justus Et Pecatore."
"Simultaneously we are sinners and saints."
This can possibly best be seen in Paul's personal confession in Romans 7.
it was once told to me that before we are saved we run towards sin and jump in, after we are saved we run from sin and are still occasionally overtaken, because we still turn our heads to look back.
For me, before i was saved sin NEVER bothered me; or even came into my mind. Now that i am saved by the grace of God, sin bothers me (even small ones) and doesn't leave my mind until i have repented. i can "feel" my sin whereas before i could not.
thus i am eagerly awaiting my new SINFREE body.
thankyou and God Bless
Good observation. I haven't thought of it that way before, but as I consider scripture, I think you are on to something.
I am aware of two natures within me.
One nature (the natural man) wants his own way, believes in himself only and thinks he does not need God. That nature seems unable to believe anything God has said. If he cant see it, he doesn't believe it. And even if he did see it, he might only believe for a little while. He wants to hide from God. He was born in sin.
The other nature only wants what God wants. He thirsts for only the things of God. He believes with all of his heart. He hates sin and corruption. He seeks God. He was born in righteousness and of a Holy seed.
They fight with each other. And God is not mocked. If I do not continually fight to overcome my carnal nature I will either invoke God's discipline or even worse my carnal nature will reap what it sows.
Only the death of this flesh will free me from this war within myself; This fight against doing what is not right. Until then, I must fight daily. This is God's work in me. He has saved and continues to save me from myself. In this life and the life to come.
Add to my own internal struggle, the enemies of God that would love to see me fail spiritually and I am more than needy of salvation or rescue and much mercy and compassion.
You should ask him when he last exceeded the speed limit, or arrived late for work. I'm willing to bet he did either or both at least once within the last week.
sin·ner ( P ) Pronunciation Key (snr)
One that sins or does wrong; a transgressor.
We are all sinners, even though we are saints.
Is "saint" the right word? I guess it reminds me to much of catholics. But then, english language is english language...
"saint" is a very good word, when used in its proper meaning.
"Saint" does not refer to those specially set aside by some Church as having performed miracles, etc, and are unquestionably in heaven.
The word includes to every, single child of God, and most often in scripture refers to the members of a church.
It is rather "weird", I guess you would say, that we are fully sinners and fully saints at this time, and so it shall remain until we take our last breath on this earth.
I look at it as the difference between what I am and what I do.
Of course, we all sin and by that definition we are sinners but is that the way the Bible categorizes us.
Joh 9:25 He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.
Rom 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Jam 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
We are lost, sinners, unrighteous, unglodly, etc.
We are pronounced saved, saints, righteous, Christians, etc.
Sinner is not a correct category to put me in but it is, unfortunately and all too frequently, a correct assessment of what I do.
Artimaeus, are you better than Paul?
He sure thought of himself as being a sinner.
If and when you ever committ a sin, you are, by definition, a sinner.
The day you or I stop committing any kind of sin, then that is the day that we can say we are no longer sinners. Unfortunately, that day will not come until we are dead.