Featured Salvation: A Gift or a Reward?

Trying to say that God will's all mankind to be saved to suit wrong doctrine will not be allowed by God. Dan 4:35, Isa 50:2.

 

John 3:16 does not say "whosoever WILL believe ( future tense)" it says whosoever believeth (present tense).

 

Debating and a discussion of the scriptures is what this forum is all about. Reporting someone to the administrators and moderators just because you disagree with their belief's makes me wonder why you are on this forum.

 

The spiritually DEAD person cannot RECEIVE a spiritual gift from God. Eph 2:5.

 

This is probably the 50th time you have butchered this text. Please quote it in it's entirety...and in context.

 

We've all heard before that spiritual death does not mean inability. However, considering the deplorable nature of death and all that goes with it, I think the connotation of being dead is inability by the very detestable nature of a corpse and the concept of death in the mind of the ancients. Nevermind the simple concept that the dead are unable to respond, dead are also unable to accept a good gift b/c they are so disgusting that they wouldn't want it. They can't b/c they wouldn't.

 

What if we looked at the gift from a different angle in this discussion?

If a stranger walked up to you and offered you a gift, you most likely would not accept it.

But if someone you knew and trusted offered you a gift, you would accept it.

When someone accepts the gift of salvation, it's because their eyes have already been opened to who it is that's offering the gift.

Many people are offered salvation through the preaching of the gospel and they reject it because the Holy Spirit has not opened their eyes to who the giver is.

When God opens your spiritual eyes, you see it is Christ that is giving you the gift of salvation and you gladly receive it because you know and trust the giver.


It's not enough to just hear the gospel, God must supernaturally reveal Himself or the gospel is just words with no power. This is what Jesus is talking about when He tells Nicodemus that the wind goes where it will. The Holy Spirit is like the wind and goes where and to whom He wills.

I hope this makes sense. It's in my head but I don't know if I can type it in a way that conveys what I'm trying to say.

 

Accepting and believing to get eternal salvation is a false doctrine. When we are born into this world we are born but natural beings void of the Holy Spirit. The natural man will not, and indeed, cannot accept anything of a Spiritual nature, 1 Cor 2:14, Ps 10:4 God quickens us when we are still in a condition of being spiritually dead, Eph 2:5.

 

If it was God's will for all mankind to be saved, He has the power to carry out his will, but we know that all mankind will not be saved. God accomplishes his will, Dan 4:35, Isa 50:2.

 

What non-Calvinist here on the BB is saying that a sinner can respond to God in faith and repentance without the special conviction of the HS? I haven't seen anyone espouse that here, so don't straw man em to death, ok?

 

God did not make Adam sin, but because he willingly choose to sin, sin fell upon all mankind. God by his forknowledge foreknew this would happen is why he choose an elect people before the foundation of the world, Eph 1, for Christ to reconcile them back to him. God's ways are much higher that our ways that we cannot understand his purposes, so it is not in our capability to understand why God did not choose to save all mankind. We understand this to be true by harmonising the scriptures.

 

If that be true and accurate, then you have no need to state such. God can most certainly take care of the matter. Are we semantically arguing "will", I think the message of the scripture in Peter, is clear, God is not willing that any should perish (It is not his desire that any should perish)

 

Don't cut God short. I believe that you are saved in spit of your false doctrine of ACCEPTING AND BELIEVING to get eternal salvation. Anyone who has a desire to know God and his teachings is already a regenerated child of God. 1 Cor 2:14. The natural man would not seek to know God.

 

Okay, Forest, I'm not messing around this time but want a serious answer. Many Calvinists simplify the system thus: you have to decide who's in control, God or man. So which is it? they say. So was Adam in control or God when sin came into the world. Non-Cals say God was in ultimate control but did not make Adam sin. God knew he would sin but did not predestine it. Do you agree?

 

If God knew Adam would sin, and God cannot be wrong, isn't that pre-knowledge still determinative? In other words, for God to know something before hand, also knowing full well it must happen the way he knows b/c he cannot be wrong, and then to go ahead with it anyways is still a predetermined plan isn't it?

Therefore, don't we have to reconcile the fact that God in a predeterminative way more than allowed Adam to sin, but actually was the final determining factor since he started the entire chain of events knowing what would happen and knowing that no other outcome would exists?

Saying God allowed sin but didn't create it doesn't really skirt the issue.

Sorry to answer for Forest. He can add his own view. I just wanted to throw this out there too.

 

As I have said in many other placeses and times, If you believe that all salvation scriptures are pertaining to eternal salvation you will never understand the truth. There are far more salvation scriptures that pertain to timely deliverances than there are that pertain to eternal. Our timely salvations are brought about by our obedience to God's commands (timely salvation by works).

 

So some get eternal salvation without accepting and believing? You should communicate a little better before calling their doctrine false. Some is just semantics. When Paul talks to the philosophers on Mars hill he says God arranged everything so that all might seek after him and perhaps feel him and find him (acts 17:27), though we know that this "wooing" is from the HS and not of ourselves, for God has arranged this for all the people of the nations. What a great God!

 

You don't have to remain in ignorance about God's purposes where He clearly reveals them to you. Harmonizing scriptures is exactly how those purposes are revealed, so harmonize this:

"Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."
(Eze. 18:29-32).

 

Yes, Tim, you're consistent and a straight shooter. I want to see if Forest is also.