Salvation and good works

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by ByGracethroughFaith, Aug 14, 2007.

  1. ByGracethroughFaith

    ByGracethroughFaith
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    0
  2. Darron Steele

    Darron Steele
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,327
    Likes Received:
    0
    Correct.

    I believe that when Ephesians 2:8-10 are considered in their entirety, `salvation by faith upon doing ___ ' are untenable.

    When Romans 8:2b-8 is considered, a multi-step system of salvation is untenable.

    Romans 8:2b-8 “through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful humanity to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in human flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind controlled by the sinful nature is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace. The sinful mind is hostile to God|. He refuses to obey God’s law. And really he is not able to obey God’s law. Those people who are ruled by their sinful selves cannot please God” (TNIV|ICB).

    Ephesians 2:8-10 “for by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may |boast hym selfe. For |in Christ Jesus, God made us new people| for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them” (ESV|BishB|ICB|ESV).

    Before the point of salvation, nothing we do pleases God. Therefore, if salvation involves multiple steps, the steps prior to the final step would not please God; He would not reward them with a `notch toward salvation.' They would not please Him. Not a single thing we do before salvation pleases Him, hence the "not your own doing" and "not of works."

    After being saved "through faith" we do the works that please Him. We are saved for those works, and because of that Galatians 5:6 "kind of faith that works through love" (ICB) we do them.
     
    #2 Darron Steele, Aug 14, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2007
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Eph 2:8 addresses the "boundary" of works used to earn salvation -- it does NOT address the boundary of Romans 11 and Matt 18 regarding salvation lost.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. mman

    mman
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Messages:
    743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are we saved by grace through faith? Absolutely!!!! Can we earn any part of our salvation? Not one iota. Does this absolve us of all commands? NO!!!

    If Matt 7 is used to deny good works in the "salvation" equation, then belief and confession are also excluded. Yes that is right. Those in Matt 7:21, not only believed in Jesus but called Him Lord.

    When Jesus said, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned" did He really mean "Whoever believes and is saved will be baptized, but whoever does not believe will be condemned'?

    Let's imagine the good news is proclaimed for the first time to people. They believe the story about Jesus and ask what they needed to do, what would be your reply?

    Let me take a shot, "You don't have to do anything, just believe that Jesus is the Son of God and accept Him as your personal Savior"? Is that close enough?

    Is that how Peter replied in Acts 2? No. Peter, speaking through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, said, "And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." - Acts 2:38

    These believers were required to do something else to obtain the remission of sins, therefore, belief alone was not sufficient. If is was, then you have an inspired Apostle beginning to fulfill the great commission with the wrong instructions.

    Eph 2:8-9 is absolutely correct and in harmony with Acts 2:38. They do not conflict at all.

    In the context of Eph 2, the verses prior to verses 8-9 talk about us being dead (vs1, 5), being made alive (vs5) then notes, "by grace you have been saved" and then says we are raised up (vs6).

    Paul also address this topic in Rom 6:1-8, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.

    Eph says we are dead, made alive, saved by grace, raised.
    Rom says we are dead, buried, and raised to walk in a new life, and this is accomplished in baptism.

    So, one can easily see that when the verses are harmonized, that we are baptized into the death of Jesus, buried with him (saved by grace) and resurrected to walk in a NEW life.

    When Jesus said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved", that is in complete harmony with "by grace you have been saved though faith".

    Baptism is not a work of merit and there is nothing that earns anything towards salvation. It is an act of faith, not earning the reward, but in obedience to a command that doesn't make sense in human terms. It is not unlike the marching around the walls of Jericho or dipping in the Jordan river 7 times to cure leprosy. These other acts didn't earn the result of the promise, but were necessary to obtain the result of the promise.

    If I could earn salvation, then I could boast. I don't earn one iota of my salvation. Salvation is by the grace of God and His grace has provided us with instructions, that can either be accepted or rejected.

    Do you want to live with Christ? You must first die with Him (Rom 6:8). How do we die with Him? Through baptism Rom 6:3-5.

    Some are required to reject the ordinary meaning of the word baptism in order to hold on to prior beliefs. Today, there is only 1 baptism, not 2 or 3 or many, only ONE! - Eph 4:5

    When you preach Jesus or preach Christ, or speak the word of the Lord, it comes with instructions for water baptism. Acts 8:5,12 clearly shows this. Acts 8:35-36 clearly shows this. Acts 16:32-33 clearly shows this.

    The commission given by Jesus, recorded in Matt 28 and Mark 16 is for all nations and all times. The Apostles were commanded to teach them what they had been taught. What had they just been told to do, go teach and baptize. Therefore, a never ending cycle began in Acts 2. The instructions for water baptism can not end or cease. There is but one baptism today (Eph 4:5) and of necessity, it is baptism in water.

    So Eph 2:5-6 and Rom 6:3-8, when we are made alive and saved by grace is when we are in the watery grave of baptism, then we are raised up with Jesus to a new life, not because we earned anything but by the grace of God - no contradictions, just complete and total harmony.
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Good exercise for the objective unbiased reader - go to any Bible web site or concordance and look up "good works" in the NT -- in all cases - how is it used?

    in Christ,

    Bob
     

Share This Page

Loading...