Salvation and Repentance

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by PamelaK, Jan 26, 2006.

  1. PamelaK

    PamelaK
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  2. Craigbythesea

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    Hi Pamela!

    I would suggest that you read articles written by Christians rather than pagans, heretics, and demons from hell.

    The article for which you provided the link said,

    This statement directly contradicts the word of God in Acts 2:37-38,

    37. Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"
    38. Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (NASB, 1995)

    The article for which you provided the link attempts to circumvent these two verses in the Bible by saying,
    They are apparently hoping that you will not read the preceding portion of this chapter and see for yourself that Peter was preaching the gospel to UNSAVED Israelites who needed to repent so that they could be saved!

    [​IMG]
     
  3. PrimePower7

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    Mark 1:14,15 seem to indicate that Jesus believed you had to repent to be saved.
     
  4. Humblesmith

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    I'd stay away from this guy. His tone is a bit acidic, not loving, and he has some awfully odd ideas that are not in line with biblical Christianity.
     
  5. EdSutton

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    I think I will stay away from this thread, at least for now.
    Ed
     
  6. webdog

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    Did the thief on the cross repent in order to be justified...or did he just put his faith in Christ?
     
  7. Craigbythesea

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    Faith and belief are the same word in the Greek New Testament, and the idea that anyone could possibly believe in Jesus and His gospel and not be brought to repentance is absolutely ridiculous. I don’t know who originated the modern day teaching that repentance is not a requirement for salvation, but for such a person as that, being burned at the stake would be very appropriate! [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  8. webdog

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    Faith and belief are the same word in the Greek New Testament, and the idea that anyone could possibly believe in Jesus and His gospel and not be brought to repentance is absolutely ridiculous. I don’t know who originated the modern day teaching that repentance is not a requirement for salvation, but for such a person as that, being burned at the stake would be very appropriate! [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    </font>[/QUOTE]You didn't answer the question. Assuming repentance is a prerequisite to salvation is just that, assuming. Could it be possible that a lost person can realize the need for a Savior, cry out to him for salvation...and then repent of their sins? Ephesians 2:8-9 does not mention repentance. One can repent without putting faith in Christ (see the catholic confession process), but we are saved by God's grace alone through faith alone.
     
  9. Hope of Glory

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    Acts 16:31: "Believe on the Lord Jesus and repent an you shall be saved."

    Emphasis is obviously mine. Too bad the Philippian jailer wasn't told the real truth about what it takes to be saved, eh?
     
  10. standingfirminChrist

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    We are saved by grace through faith, but we must be repentant.

    I have posted before...
    Psalms 66:18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear [me]:

    We also hear in God's Word...
    Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer [shall be] abomination.
     
  11. standingfirminChrist

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    The Philippian Jailor was already repentent, else he would not have asked what he needed to do to be saved.
     
  12. Craigbythesea

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    Yes, one can repent without putting faith in Christ, and that repentance will not save him.

    To say that we are saved by God's grace alone through faith alone is, of course self contradictory. And faith, in both Old Testament and New Testament theology is NEVER alone. It ALWAYS involves volition, and to save a man it ALWAYS includes works—not the works of the Law, but works from the heart, including, most obviously, repentance!

    James 2:14. What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
    15. If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
    16. and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
    17. Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
    18. But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
    19. You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
    20. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
    21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
    22. You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
    23. and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
    24. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
    25. In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
    26. For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

    The repentant thief on the cross believed in Jesus and His gospel, confessed to Jesus that he was a sinner, repented of his sins, and was forgiven.

    1 John 3:7. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
    8. the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. (NASB, 1995)

    [​IMG]
     
  13. unashamedservant

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    "repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." - Acts 20:21

    I believe that repentance is an essential ascept of salvation.

    Barry
     
  14. AresMan

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    What does repentance mean? The word comes from the Greek work metanoia--meta meaning "change" and noia meaning "mind".
    I believe that "repentance" is necessary for salvation because you need to change your mind concerning your lost condition and realize that you are condemned to hell and in need of a Saviour. You repent by changing your faith from yourself to Christ alone.
     
  15. Humblesmith

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    You cannot turn toward Christ unless you turn away from something. So faith in Christ and repentance are two sides of the same thing. You cannot turn away from sin unless you turn toward Christ, and you cannot turn toward Him unless you turn away from something. Repentance and faith are both the same event.

    Any support of salvation without repentance reeks of BIG problems.
     
  16. Faith alone

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    Pamela,

    Thank you. I'm sorry you have been so abused and talked down to regarding that article. It's not a bad article, though not at all professional in how he speaks. I wonder if the people who commented actually read what he said very carefully though, or just reacted to some statements he made, like the following:
    That's just not appropriate. And sometimes a statement like the one Craig reacted to is expressed so strongly that it invites a reaction:
    Now I actually happen to agree with that statement - if certain restrictions were applied... otherwise I'd have to disagree. Though he certainly is not a "pagan, heretic, and demon from hell," Craig.

    That said, I've never heard of him before and know nothing about him... but he's not really dangerous. I do understand Craig's rather strong reaction though, considering some things he said and the manner in which he (Steve Van Nattan) said them. That's just not edifiying to say such. IMO some of his arguments are pretty good, and some are not valid... There are better sources for that particular message out there.

    That said, may I suggest that much of the confusion here and disagreement could be settled by a careful definition of terms? OTOH we see in John's gospel that we are saved by simply believing. In fact, "repent"/"repentance" is not even used there once, though believe (in a participal form almost exclusively)is used something like 98 or 95 times. But then we read Luke's gospel, and he uses "repent"/"repentance" 14 times and "believe"/"faith" 20 times.

    So what gives? Many define "repentance" as "to turn from sin," or something like that. While that may well be the result of repentance, it is not really the lexical definition.

    METANOEW means "to change your mind." Now that's just the root idea, and we have to be careful about simply using it when trying to understand how it is used in specific contexts. (That's called the root fallacy) I studied repentance in the NT in some detail a few years ago, trying to understand how repentance is used invarious books, and concluded that it usually (though not always) is used in relation to sin. So someone is changing their mind/attitude about sin... in their life. It is also used a few times in the NT (maybe 5 times) as a synonym for faith/believing. To change your mind about Jesus Christ, who He is and that He died for you, would essentially be a step of faith.

    What I've generally decided to do when reading passages on repentance is to try to keep firmly in my mind that repentance has to do with the mind. It is not about something that I do. Hence I see repentance as a sort of precursor to salvation, as was already said in this thread. IOW, how can we come to trust in Christ if we do not realize that we are sinners?! To trust in Christ is to rely upon His death in my behalf, while to rely on works, to even a degree, is to rely upon my own efforts to save me.
    How can we come to Him if we do not recognize that we are sinners in need of a Savior? John the Baptizer came before Christ - preparing His way. He baptized people with the baptism of repentance "telling the people to believe in the One who was to come after Him, that is, Jesus." (Acts 19) The Pharisees, and the Jews in general, we're looking for Christ to come as a political Savior, and to usher in a golden age. They had great pride in their works - much as in Revelation 3:17 above. But without a repentent heart they did not receive Christ as their Messiah.

    Anyway, this tends to become a really touchy subject for many, so I don't like to argue it. I think that just keeping in mind that repentance is something that takes place in the mind helps me though. Does repentance always result in works? I'd have to say that in general, yes. But it isn't the works which saves - it's the faith in Christ... the relying upon Him and Him alone that saves us.

    A general principle: anyone who uses abusive terms such as referring to anyone who teaches this or that as a "mongrel teacher damned to hell" - well, I'd stay away from such. Extremist statements like that show that he is not emotionally balanced, and can't be relied upon to always make sound biblical statements. Like I said before, I think he has a lot of legitimate things to say there, but you have to kind of pick-n-choose. [​IMG]

    If you look in www.bible.org you'll find some articles which have a biblical approach to repentance carefully explained and defended.

    FA
     
  17. Faith alone

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    Good point. He obviously recognized his need for a Savior - that he was a sinner. If we ignore repentance we basically ignore God's work of drawing us to Himself.
     
  18. genesis12

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    Whew! Suffice it to say that repentance and confession are not the same thing, and salvation by grace thru faith isn't the same as either one. One comes under conviction of one's "lostness," one's journey apart from God, thru the agency of the Holy Spirit. At that moment one cries out "God! I believe!" "I believe that Jesus Christ is who He says He is! I receive Him as my Savior!" Now... one might include in that PROfession of faith in Christ as Savior words like "O God! I'm sorry for my wicked ways!" Or, "O God! I confess that I've lived a sinful life." That's okay! God won't say "Oops...sorry...you got that wrong...." The bottom line is that in response to the wooing, the quickening of the Holy Spirit, one receives, believes, acknowledges Christ as Savior. Don't reduce salvation to a formula that folks have to get right! That's Judaism. That's Catholicism. That's Mormonism. That's Jehovah Witnessism. We ain't none of that! Away with legalism! Rejoice, rather, that a new name is written down in Glory! Hallelujah! [​IMG]
     
  19. genesis12

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    .....and BTW, Paul V____ posed an artfully crafted question which, I trust, any Christian could comprehend.
     
  20. EdSutton

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    Okay, It's called hindsight! Or delayed intelligence, whichever.
    I should have taken the time to read the article and comment back when I saw this. I am somewhat familiar with the person with the article. I am certain I would not recommend him to most, as a rule. But there is an old saying from the country folk that even a blind hog finds an acorn sometimes in the woods. Well, here, for the most part, is one of those acorns. You've also probably heard, "Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater!" Good advice, I believe. Appropriate here.

    Hope of Glory, webdog, and AresMan, Y'all are right on in this, your analysis.

    Humblesmith, you are right in a couple of points.
    But first, in your assessment of the individual, that "His tone is a bit acidic...", I would suggest that is an understatement, to say the least.
    As to "Repentance and faith are both the same event." and
    "Any support of salvation without repentance reeks of BIG problems.",
    I agree, 100%, but I do not think your definition of 'repentance', is derived from Scripture, unlike I think is that of AresMan.
    Finally, I challenge any and all to find one- just one- instance of any of the following combinations of words of the phrase "repent of/from (your) sin(s)" in the 66 books of canonical Scriptures. If you can show that, I will agree, and admit that I have been wrong on this- hence repentance, for a long time. If you cannot, are you willing to make the same admission? I suggest it is a fair question.
    In His grace,
    Ed
     

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