Salvation and sin

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by MB, Mar 6, 2008.

  1. MB

    MB
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    On another thread there was a few things I wish I had said but it was closed. It concerns sin. People seem to want to think in terms of degrees of punishment between one sin and another.
    It's seems like the thought of sin isn't as bad as the sin it self and these so called seven deadly sins are worse than the rest. James wrote;

    Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

    If this is true and I believe it is. It means that even what some might call the less offensive sin still has the same consequence as all the rest in that you will still have to pay the same for it, as for the worst of sin.

    James 2:10 says to me that we are transgressors period and the penalty is death, because when we break one commandment we break them all. There is no difference between murder and coveting or hating your brother.

    Sin is something I'd really like to rid myself of not because I'm trying to get to heaven by keeping the Law but because the Law teaches us how to avoid catastrophe. It teaches us holy living. Not to mention that the Law is God’s will and He desires us to keep them.

    There are many ways we can express our Love for God and doing His will would have to be one of the best. No one will ever gain Salvation by keeping the Law. Yet this doesn’t mean we should break the Law just because we have grace.
    MB
     
  2. Joe

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    Ditto
    Sorry rbell,
    I misunderstood your post. Since the info was in the public forum already, it is impossible that the same info can suddenly become private because it was private messaged to someone.
    You are trustable ....:saint: if that's a word!
     
  3. MB

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    I think you got on the wrong thread and didn't realize it.
    MB
     
  4. Brother Bob

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    If the info was public knowledge of which I do not believe my PM's are, then it should be no problem to produce the thread and post number, for it sure was not public knowledge to me.

    I never give out a PM myself, and it is not kosher to do so by anyone. We need to stand up and take responsibility for what we do, instead of going on a spree of calling someone a liar.
    Also, produce the lies, I have supposed to have made. That would be a big help for us all. Seems to me, if it is up to lie number 4, he should be able to produce the lies.

    Maybe he is trustable and maybe he is not.


    BBob,
     
  5. DHK

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    No it doesn't. But we do break the Law because of our sin nature. We sin. And to claim that we don't is sin in itself. It makes us even that much more of a sinner because it is the sin of self-righteousness and pride. Those are two terrible sins that God hates.
    Are you (meaning any of you) greater than the Apostle Paul? Paul classified himself as the chief of sinners. He did so because he was very humble, and because he had a very close walk with God. The closer one's walk to God is the more he sees his own imperfections, his own sin, how short of God's standard he really falls.
    Consider Paul's own testimony; his own struggle with sin:

    Romans 7:14-17 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
    15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
    16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
    17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

    Paul admitted that sin dwells in him (present tense). He admitted that he sins. He says that the things that he didn't want to do, that he did; and the things that he did want to do, that he didn't do.

    In desperation he (near the end of the chapter) cries out:
    Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

    But there is an answer to Paul's dilemma. This is not an unsaved state he is describing. Paul has described what every Christian goes through--the struggle with sin. If one doesn't go through that same struggle they can conclude one of two things:
    either they are not saved,
    or, they are not walking close to God.

    Here is the answer to Paul's dilemma:
    Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

    The battle is in the mind, and the solution is in the mind. One must give their mind over completely to the Lord Jesus Christ to serve him completely. You can't serve two masters. With the mind we serve the law of God; the commands of our Lord and Saviour. But when we give into the flesh we sin. Which master will you serve?
    Paul admitted sin. But he also knew the solution to overcoming it. He diddn't always overcome sin. But the solution was there. No one lives a sinless life.
     
  6. rbell

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    Your post was excellent, MB...I quoted your last paragraph, because I thought it best encapsulated some thoughts others had gleaned from the thread.
     
  7. tinytim

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    There has to be a balance....

    We don't want to sin because we are afraid we will go to Hell... instead
    We don't want to sin because we recognize what God did for us.
     
  8. rbell

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    Sorry to cause the derail, MB. My Bad. (Hey..your name is an acronym! :laugh: )

    But I think I can quickly answer this one, and be done with it.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1192739&postcount=128

    I promise, no more rabbits chased from me here.

    Be blessed, folks.

    Rbell
     
  9. Brother Bob

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    Yea, Paul said I am not worthy to be called an apostle, for I persecuted the church of God, but by the Grace of God, I am what I am.

    Show me, where Paul committed such a sin after being converted. Give scripture, not your interpetation.

    2 Peter, chapter 3

    "14": Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

    "15": And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

    "16": As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

    "17": Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

    "18": But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever.
    Amen.

    1 Tim 1:

    12: And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
    13: Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
    14: And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
    15: This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
    16: Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

    God help those who want to find an excuse to sin.


    BBob,
     
    #9 Brother Bob, Mar 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2008
  10. DHK

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    Paul said:
    Sin dwells in me.

    It doesn't have to be the same sin. Sin is sin. Read my post again. Do you disagree with Scripture? Do you deny it?
     
  11. DHK

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    Bob, I take this inference as a personal attack. There is no one here, including myself who wants to find an excuse to sin. If that is what you mean, I will discuss this matter with others.
     
  12. Brother Bob

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    I am not attacking you. I do pray for those who search the scripture to excuse sin. I did not say you did. This is for those who do hunt scripture to excuse sin.

    I expect anything as of now DHK;


    BBob,
     
    #12 Brother Bob, Mar 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2008
  13. Brother Bob

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    The question is you say he was chief of sinners after conversion. You need to show the sin he was chief of. If you can't then you misread the scripture. IMO

    BBob,
     
  14. DHK

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    Bob, what kind of people do you know that search the Scriptures to excuse sin? I don't know of any. I only know of cults that search the Scriptures to bolster up false doctrine. So if you are not referring to those of us who disagree with your position, who are you referring to?
     
  15. Brother Bob

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    I have had people tell me they had searched scripture to excuse their sin. I am accusing no one on BB. If you make it so, then it is false. I think those of you who disagree are misreading scripture.

    BBob,
     
  16. webdog

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    Obama tried using the sermon on the mount to justify homosexuality, and the acceptance of it. Trust me...they are out there.
     
  17. DHK

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    Bob, he didn't say he was chief of sins, but of sinners.
    He doesn't have to name any sins. He is not referring to sins. He is referring to his own sinful state. He knows that he is a sinful man. As I mentioned the one who walks close to the Light, sees more and more the imperfections of his own nature or sinful self.
    The farther away one is from God, the more likely he is not able to see those sins. For example my father is not saved. He denies that he is a sinner. As long as he denies that he is a sinner he will never come to know Christ. He needs to be convicted of his sin first.

    The same holds true for a Christian and his fellowship with God. In his daily walk with God he must be able to confess his sins on a daily basis in order to maintain a close walk with God. If he denies that he has sin, he no doubt is far away from God, or is not saved in the first place.
     
  18. DHK

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    Muslims also use the Word of God deceitfully. But we are not speaking of the unsaved are we. In fact we are speaking mostly of those entering into this conversation that are on this board. Since when did Obama come into this conversation, or anyone like him?
    That is a total red herring.
     
  19. rbell

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    I agree with this.
     
  20. webdog

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    Obama claims to be Christian. You stated emphatically nobody searches the Scriptures to justify sin. You are wrong.
     

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