Salvation by Faith

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, May 18, 2007.

  1. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
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    Is our salvation by faith? Do you say you have faith in your salvation? Can you offer prove of your assertions to the one that might question what you have? What proof would you offer? Can one point simply to Scripture as evidence? What assurance does one have that the Scriptures pointed to is proof of ‘their personal salvation?’ Is it possible to be deceived? How can I be certain that the assurance of Scripture one holds can be applied to the state we are now in, as opposed to mere thinking one is saved while in actuality they are not?
     
  2. Amy.G

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    Hi HP,
    I have faith in the Person of Jesus Christ and trust the Holy Scriptures. I cannot prove my salvation to anyone and I don't have to, since it was a transaction between God and me. I know what I feel in my heart. God's Spirit in me bears witness with my spirit that I'm saved. Can I prove that to anyone? I don't think so. However, I have a changed life, different priorities and a love for the Lord that wasn't there before salvation. How can I be certain I'm saved and not deceiving myself? I think I must have a true desire for God and the truth and God will provide the proof in my heart.
     
  3. J. Jump

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    Look out Amy we agree again :)
     
  4. Amy.G

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    :eek: What is this world coming to? :laugh:
     
  5. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: I like your post. It shows clearly a heart set upon God and being obedient to His Word.
     
  6. Amy.G

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    Thank you!:wavey:
     
  7. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: I agree with this also. I should have asked, what ‘evidence’ might one offer? I think you answered that by your changed life and changed desires.
     
  8. Doubting Thomas

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    Good questions, HP. I'll take a stab at them...

    Yes, but more specifically by grace through faith (Eph 2:8), but only a faith working through love avails for anything in Christ (Gal 5:6).


    Nope...I have faith in the Person and Work of the LORD and Savior Jesus Christ. Salvation is in Him:
    "And this is the testimony, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life, and He who does not have the Son of God does not have life." (1 John 5:11-12)


    Well, James wrote we can show our faith by our works (James 2:18), so I guess my proof would be my works---whether by my actions I really do love the Lord my God with all my heart (etc) and love my neighbor as myself. (Christ said if we loved Him we'd keep His commandments )


    It depends on which Scriptures and how they are interpreted. It seems, for instance, like a fair number of people want to derisively dismiss the plain meaning of many Scriptures as "works salvation". Perhaps this is because according to the plain meaning of certain texts, at the final judgement it says we'll be judged according to what works we have. Our Lord says as much, as recorded in John's Gospel:
    "Do not marvel at this, but the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth--those who have done good to the resurrection of Life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation." (John 5:28-29)

    Also, Paul teaches the same, writing that God in the day of judgement will:
    "'render to each one according to his deeds'; eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish on every soul of man who does evil." (Romans 2:6-9)


    I don't think the Scriptures themselves are "proof" of our 'personal salvation'. However, the Sciptures give us some guidelines about how we can have such assurance.
    John says in His first epistle:
    "But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin." (1 John 1:7)

    ..and...
    "If we confess our sins, He is faitful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness". (1 John 1:9)

    (John mentions other ways I'll list further down)

    And Peter says if we add certain things (virtue, knowledge, self-control, perserverence, godliness, brotherly kindness, and love) to our faith, we'll never be unfruitful in our knowledge of Christ, we won't stumble, and we can thus make our calling and election sure and so have an entrance supplied for us into the everlasting kingdom of Jesus Christ. (2 Peter 1:5-11)


    Absolutely. Paul wrote as much to the Galatians:
    "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, he will also reap. For he who sows to the flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows of the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life". (Gal 6:7-8)

    Some people may be hanging their hats on a one time decision to 'accept Christ', yet be presently sowing to the flesh, perhaps not realizing that they'll reap corruption if they continue doing so.


    Well, Paul suggests we should examine ourselves:
    "Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith (present tense)." (2 Corinthians 13:5)

    And John lists some ways, in his First Epistle, that we know that we know Him and have life:
    "Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says 'I know Him', and does not keep His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this do we know that we are in Him." (1 John 2:3-5)

    It's interesting to note that John didn't say "we know we know Him" or "know that we are in Him" based on a past experience of "accepting Christ as our Savior" (I think that will come as a surprise to some people).

    Also..
    "Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us." (1 John 3:24)

    (In fact, I suggest everyone read the entire First Epistle of John, especially as it provides much needed context for the oft, misused OSAS prooftext 1 John 5:13.)

    DT
     
    #8 Doubting Thomas, May 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2007
  9. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    DT, If you are not a preacher you should be.:thumbs: I cannot for the life of see anything ‘doubting’ about your answers. They are straight forward and to the point with the power of the Holy Spirit and truth present. Your answers made me take a fresh look at my walk with Christ, and His provision for me, just as every good sermon should.

    Possibly you should consider changing your name to ‘Believing Thomas?’ :)
     
  10. J. Jump

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    That's highly debateable :laugh:
     
  11. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: JJ, you need to be spending your time finding out the GK word depicting the universal idea of forever or everlasting, more commonly known as eternal. :)
     
  12. Amy.G

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    J.J., what do you mean?
     
  13. J. Jump

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    Well HP said that DT's post was from the Holy Spirit and full of truth, but there were lots of errors within DT's post with Scripture taken out of context almost at every turn.
     
  14. steaver

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    That is quite a list of questions!

    Regeneration is the personal assurance of salvation. Once one becomes born of God by the Holy Spirit they become a new creature spiritually. The spirit is quickened to life and you become one with Christ, one with God. Once this has happened, the testimony of truth is ever present with you and in you. Rom 8:16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

    Can I explain to a lost person that what I believe in Christ is truth? Can I prove to a lost person that what I believe in Christ is truth? No, I cannot. The Spirit proves it to me, but I cannot prove it to the lost. Only the Spirit can do this.

    I can explain what i personally know in Christ to another who has been born of God and they will understand because they have the same Spirit testifying the same truth about Jesus Christ.

    But the lost cannot comprehend what is going on in the saved. Jhn 3:8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    The lost can see something peculiar in the saved, but they just don't get it.

    So ever since I received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and was quickened by the Holy Spirit being created a child of God, I have the perminent indwelling of the Holy Spirit forever testifying the truth within me. I have been re-created by God, for God. I am forever His, for His purposes and for His Glory. My salvation is held by Jesus Christ, if it were held by me it wouldn't be salvation and it would surely fail at every turn.

    When I was born into this world through my parents means, I was my father's child forever. This fact can never change. When I was born of God through God's means, I was my Father God's child forever and this fact cannot change. This is why Jesus used such a perminent situation to describe how people entered into heaven.Jhn 1:13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    So salvation is not a "thinking" matter at all. It is a spiritual matter and it is from God working in you. I was saved as a child and I went many years never reading or understanding one passage of the bible. Yet in those years I always heard the Spirit of God working in me guiding me into what was the moraly right things to do and I always heard the Spirit confirming my faith in Jesus Christ daily. I didn't even know there was such a thing as "born again" but I was living it every day. Once I started studying the scriptures I then saw what it was that I had been experiencing all of those years within.

    Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. I heard Billy Graham preaching on tv one night when I was about ten. I heard enough to understand that I was a sinner and I needed salvation through calling on Jesus Christ. I did call on Jesus that night and from then on I have never questioned my faith in God and Christ even though I was ignorant of all other scriptures (as far as study goes, I of course heard preachers from time to time preaching the do's and don't's, but i was basically unchurched and undiscipled for twenty years).

    I was once told by a brother who wanted to teach that you could lose your salvation somehow that you could just stop believing. This would mean that you had a "thinking" salvation which never saved anyways. True salvation is of God and is a regeneration, a new creature being born. It is "knowing" Jesus Christ because He is part of your very new being. How can one stop believing that which they have experienced is truth? They cannot not, nor would they ever want to.

    God Bless!
     
  15. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: Help me out here. How do you arrive at that conclusion from that verse?
     
  16. steaver

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    My conclusion, in part, comes from all that I had posted prior to "So salvation is not a "thinking" matter at all". Not just that one verse.

    God Bless! :thumbs:
     
  17. D28guy

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    Heavenly Pilgrim,

    Our eternal security is attained by our personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and His death in our place.



    No. I have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.



    Yes.



    1) The truth of the scriptures.

    2) My life has been revolutionised.



    Yes.



    Because God does not lie.



    Yes. of course. We all can be decieved in many ways. Many think they are "saved", but have never really trusted Christ. They might be trusting in "religion". They might be trusting in their denominational affiliation. They might be trusting in their behavior. On and on it goes.



    Because the "state we are now in" is "sinner". As a snner our penalty is death...."The soul that sins, it shall surely die". But all of our sins where placed upon Christ..."He who knew no sin, became sin, so that we might become the rightiousness of God in Him.", and..."The wages of sin is death..."(Christ took it for us) "...but the gift of God is eternal life."

    Blessings,

    Mike
     
  18. Hope of Glory

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    While I agree with your statement, I would like to point out that the deception comes from either within the individual or from others. The deception can be easily exposed by Scriptures, which is why many assemblies prohibit bringing your own Bible and/or studying it on your own.

    The Scriptures state simply, "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved", but others obfuscate the message by adding (or substituting) all this other junk you're talking about.
     
  19. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: Do not the words, “believe on the Lord Jesus” beg the question as to what such a belief entails? Scripture clearly indicates and gives us examples of the devils believing in Christ, yet they are not saved. To call everything else ‘junk’ is to be simple minded to the destruction of truth. There are many passages that inform us that there are some other things man must do besides ‘believe on Christ’ in order to be saved, without which no man will be saved. Repentance and continuing faithful until the end are two necessary conditions, and that’s no junk.
     
    #19 Heavenly Pilgrim, May 19, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2007
  20. Hope of Glory

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    Ah, so, you're claiming that God lied in at least one place.
     

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