Salvation Equation

Perhaps your right. :thumbs:

 

The other choice is rejecting the offer of salvation, which I already stated.

The one "predestined" will never make that choice because God has so intervened in their lives that their response will be to choose Christ every time Holy Spirit so moves in that person's life.

The person joyfully and eagerly choses Christ, as a man suffocating in a dark room would joyfully and eagerly chose fresh air and sunshine when offered.

peace to youraying:

 

Then they have no choice! If the person is overwhelmed because of being predisposed they have no choice. Man I have got to go fishing.

 

Van-

Absolutely correct—the only thing you forgot was the source behind each—but other than that—correct!

Lol- how is that not completely different---choosing what is sinful & choosing what is Godly—last time I checked those 2 things were utterly opposed to each other (ie complete opposites!) yet the word peirazo can mean both--only context determines!

 

Not really—peirazo is translated “tempted” when the intent is to get someone to sin or go against the will of God— while peirazo is translated “test” when the intent is to put someone through a trial to prove their faithfulness to God’s will—with the motive being success. But regardless—go get a lexicon, or google, or where ever it is you get your Greek information---The verb peirazo may express both the nuance of testing to achieve approval & that of tempting to achieve disapproval. Meanings that are polar opposites & can only be determined by context. Lets put it this way—if you just saw the word “peirazo” you wouldn’t really know what was meant—unless you saw how it was being used in specific context.

 

By name, never says "by name" and we never said it was "by name." But Scripture does teach that individuals were chosen before the foundation of the world in Ephesians 1:4.

Of course God chose use before we were called.

No, at sometime during our lives we were not saved

You are not born saved.

You don't receive mercy before you lived. You are not born saved. You were not "in Christ" until you are saved(when you become "a people" and receive "mercy."

Actually, this is a pretty good verse on election and the fact that we are not born saved.

 

John 10, Jesus tells us He calls His sheep "by name". This is calling them so as to bring them to salvation. That is a specific call of a specific people... "by name". Not just of Jews, but also of Gentiles (v.16). Jesus says He already knows their names, prior to their following Him. He says they will "hear His voice" and follow Him. Each and every one of His sheep that He calls will follow Him.

In fact, some of the Pharisees are told they do not follow Jesus because they are not of His sheep (v.26). He doesn't say they are not His sheep because they do not follow Him (which would support your view), but they don't follow Him because they are not His sheep.

That is simply nonsense. God can and does choose a specific people for salvation before the foundation of the world (Eph. 2) and still have those people come to salvation at a certain point in time with full certainity of it coming to pass. So, at some point in their lives they are not saved, but they are most certainly chosen for salvation before the foundation of the world. That is the testimony of scripture.

I agree that you do not see.

peace to youraying:

 

It is not as "deterministic" as you make it out to be.

God DRAWS us, not FORCES us. By the time He is done with His drawing, we WANT to be saved! Sometimes, during this process, it appears to us as if WE are doing all the work -- coming to God, making a decision, or rejecting a decision, etc. -- but that is merely our perspective, not God's. He knows whether He is drawing a person or not, and if He is, His drawing WILL be effectual in His timing.

 

Run

To unravel (nylons, sweaters)
To leave or depart (have to run)
To accomplish (errands)
To move swiftly with human foot power
To tend to persist (this runs in the family)
To accumulate or accrue
A play in football
To pass over or through (run a canoe over the rapids)
To submit for decision (run that by you)
To smuggle (run Bibles or guns)
To cause to function (I run that machine)
To move quickly (fingers across keyboard)
To hunt or chase someone or something with dogs
To evade a roadblock
A series of operations or events
To move or transport (run me into town)
A successful sports campaign (they are on a run)
To take a certain mind-set (my thoughts run to...)
To spread rapidly (disease runs its course)
What paint does if applied too wet or too thick on vertical surfaces
What an engine or motor does when some power-producing agent is introduced
To be subject to risk
An unbroken streak
To execute a computer program
To comb or brush (fingers through hair)
To cause to crash (run the car into a tree)
To exist in a certain range (the sizes run to)
A series of musical notes
To be performed for a certain length of time (this play will run...)
To continue in effect or operation
To penetrate (run a nail into my foot)
To be valid in only a certain jurisdiction (speed limit runs to the edge of the city limits)
To have a financial obligation (run a deficit)
What happens when all the balls in a game of pool are pocketed
To advertise in a periodical (run an add)
To conduct or perform (experiment)
To cause to flow (fill a tub)
To pass (time runs on)
To flow in a steady stream (as in water)
To make a short trip to pick up some small amount of supplies
An order of parts or assemblies produced at some factory or shop
A race or event of some type
To melt and flow
A specific valid accomplishment (hunting rights run with ownership of the land)
The action of a fast-moving animal
To extend, stretch, or reach (this road runs to..., Ivy runs up...)
The action of weeping bodily fluids (nose, sore, etc.)
To move without hindrance at a fast pace
The act of something dissolving or being diluted (color in fabric)
The act of being covered by some fluid (oil runs over the plate of steel)
The act of migration of certain animal or aquatic species
To engage in the election process of a political or other office
To roll freely downhill (wheels, a ball, etc.)
To go back and forth on schedule (as in a ferry or train)
The action of a sail craft before the wind
What happens when we eat wrongly


I'm sure there are more "USAGES" for the word "run" but these cover the main bases. Note that the EXACT same word is used in each case.

CONTEXT derives the exact expression desired. Simply saying "run" without context can produce any number of false impressions -- akin to concording one particular biblical word (as is often done here and elsewhere by well-meaning persons that do not understand the hermeneutical issues with context) and "running" with that single meaning instead of suppling a valid context.

 

You are partially correct and partially incorrect. The writers of the Scriptures had to make a (Holy Spirit guided) choice in their word usage. In many cases, they took rather standard Greek (or Hebrew for that matter) terms and modified them for a brand new use, to detail the revelation of God to God's people. Because almost every book of the Bible was written by a different author, for a different purpose, in a different land, to different people, we cannot simply assume that every concorded use of any given word will be similar across the board. CONTEXT is our clue, and actually our only clue. To avoid the context of the pericope in order to "proof text" (as is SO often done on this board, and obviously in the churches where those here teach) is a horrendous problem, for often the true usage of the word is not brought out by exegesis in context, but by the theological bent or desire of the reader, for his or her own purpose.

They then say, with assurance, "thus saith the Lord," except that what they are saying is not quite what the Lord actually caused to be said!

I've seen you do just that in this thread...

 

Van
Is it possible it is you who are missing the point?
No one else in church history is coming up with your understanding of the verses and words.For you to set aside previous teachers who knew the greek and hebrew as well as several good brothers in here who are offering correction....is dangerous. You are saying,not asking...that we all have it wrong.
And yet the very thing you are saying about pastors and teachers who lived before us,if you look at your posts ,you are suggesting we follow you instead.

You might have noticed......in every post I am highly critical of your ideas.These are not just opinions about things indifferent.They are serious error. You might not receive correction from me as I am very critical of your ideas and see them as needing to be opposed. Some of the other men are more gracious in trying to offer correction so perhaps they can get through.