Salvation for Homosexuals

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by butterbloom, Feb 1, 2003.

  1. butterbloom

    butterbloom
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    Is there such a thing as a practicing homosexual being a Christian? Let me make this prefectly clear. Can a practicing homosexual continue in their lifestyle and be saved? Will a practicing homosexual go to heaven when they die if they have accepted Christ as their savior?

    Please explain from scripture your reasoning.
     
  2. Caretaker

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    Gal. 5:
    19: Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20: Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21: Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    23: Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
    24: And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
    25: If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
    26: Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.


    Eph. 5:

    2: And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling savour.
    3: But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
    4: Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
    5: For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
    6: Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
    7: Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
    8: For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
    9: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
    10: Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
    11: And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
    12: For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
    13: But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
    14: Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
    15: See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

    2 Cor. 7:
    9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after F16 a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. 11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.


    Easton's Bible Dictionary

    Repentance [N] [T]

    There are three Greek words used in the New Testament to denote repentance.

    The verb metamelomai is used of a change of mind, such as to produce regret or even remorse on account of sin, but not necessarily a change of heart. This word is used with reference to the repentance of Judas (Matthew 27:3).

    Metanoeo, meaning to change one's mind and purpose, as the result of after knowledge. This verb, with (3) the cognate noun metanoia , is used of true repentance, a change of mind and purpose and life, to which remission of sin is promised.

    Evangelical repentance consists of (1) a true sense of one's own guilt and sinfulness; (2) an apprehension of God's mercy in Christ; (3) an actual hatred of sin (Psalms 119:128; Job 42:5,6; 2co 7:10) and turning from it to God; and (4) a persistent endeavour after a holy life in a walking with God in the way of his commandments.

    The true penitent is conscious of guilt (Psalms 51:4,9), of pollution (51:5,7,10), and of helplessness (51:11; 109:21,22). Thus he apprehends himself to be just what God has always seen him to be and declares him to be. But repentance comprehends not only such a sense of sin, but also an apprehension of mercy, without which there can be no true repentance (Psalms 51:1; 130:4).

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


    Can a murderor come to Christ, continue to murder and go to Heaven? Can a thief come to Christ, continue to steal and go to Heaven? Can a drunkard come to Christ, continue to get drunk and go to Heaven? Can a fornicator come to Christ, continue to carouse and go to Heaven?

    When one comes to Christ is there not sorrow for one's sins? Does not one seek to turn from one's sins? Will there not be an outward change in the spiritual fruit, denoting an inward change in one's heart?


    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  3. dwd

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    If your asking what I think scripture says than I must say that no, a practiceing homosexual will not go heaven.
    I see that Caretaker has given a good post on the subject with scripture to back it .
    I would just like to add that true child of God is corrcted for his misbehaviors or sins if you will. We see that in

    Hebrews12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto
    children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when
    thou art rebuked of him:

    HEB 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom
    he receiveth.

    HEB 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what
    son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

    HEB 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then
    are ye bastards, and not sons.

    I must also say that Homosexuals lust are not any more bearing on them as my sinful temptations are to me. You see I came out of alcholism and drug addiction with a lifestyle that would curl your hair. But God saved me and when he did this happened

    CO2 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things
    are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

    I believe that this passage is pretty clear

    CO1 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
    Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor
    effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    CO1 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor
    extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    Now I know that there is no perfect people or Christians. But to live in open rebellion against God is to me a sure sign of a professing person instead of a spirit possessing Christian

    One last thought Paul told the Corinthians this

    CO2 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own
    selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except
    ye be reprobates?

    There are what I believe to be three points to this examination
    1 Conviction of Sin
    2 Fruits of the Spirit
    3. Love for the church
    Any kind of practicing sinful person better check his or hers salvation they might just have a wooden nickel
     
  4. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Let me say that, first of all, I agree totally with both of the above posts.

    However, I would like to ask an honest question.

    Are you leaving room for a backslider here?

    "Once saved...always saved" does not give us a license to sin willfully. But people DO backslide and God knew they would or He would not have addressed that problem in the Bible and given us a solution.

    There are no different degrees in backsliding. If you are not as close to God today as you used to be; then you are a backslider and in just as sad a shape as the drunkard who got saved and slipped back into drinking or any of the above mentioned states.

    Will you go to hell if you die before repenting?

    [​IMG]
    Sue
     
  5. Jim1999

    Jim1999
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    According to what you are all saying, we are ALL in great difficulty. For, is there one of us without sin?

    Get everyone saved and we have sinless perfection in a bottle!

    Just because one is saved, it may not end a lifetime habit in certain sins...it takes time.....it takes learning.....it takes the lasting work of the Holy Spirit. Homosexuality is no different to any other sin. Many a soul has fought a seemingless eternity against their past.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. donnA

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    I think it depends on if they are acting from being backslidden, or are they acting from the thought that theres nothing wrong with being homosexual. Everyone sins, and eveeryone at one time or another does something from their old life, but to continue in it as if Jesus makes no difference means there has been no change of the heart.
     
  7. butterbloom

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    We all know that it is not what God chooses for us. And we all know that we all sin, continually. There are sins of omission as well.
    I am a remarried Christian. You may believe that I have no chance of entering heaven because I am an adulterer.

    What is the difference here? I like the point that "I Am Blessed" made about the backslidden condition.

    What about if you have the blood of Christ covering your sins, you are not sinning because God sees no sin, only the blood of His Son?

    1 John 3
    9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
     
  8. Headcoveredlady

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    Jesus died for the sin of homosexuality. When we are saved, we die and in Romans 6:7, "He who is dead is free from sin."
    Jesus defeats strongholds that the enemy has erected in the believers life.

    HCL
     
  9. butterbloom

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    Here is an excerpt from "In Touch Ministries" regarding salvation:

    Fourth, failure to take God at His Word. Follow this logic. Pastor asks, "Do you believe Acts 16:31 that whoever believes in the Lord Jesus shall be saved?" Parishioner: "Well, yes. But I don't know if I am." Pastor: "Did you believe on His name?" Parishioner: "Yes, but I don't know if it worked." Pastor: "Why do you insist on calling God a liar?" Red-faced parishioner: "I would never call God a liar." Pastor: "Did He or did He not say, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved'?" Parishioner: "He said it. I know He said it. I just don't know if I'm saved."
    You see, there is very little logic. If I came up to you and said, "I am very happy you're reading this book," and you responded, "Oh, I don't really believe you mean that!" you are doubting my sincerity.
    That is exactly what we are doing when we doubt what God has said. We are doubting His trustworthiness.
    Sometimes I meet people and they say, "Well, I used to be saved." I will ask, "How'd you get lost?" They name something they've done or thought. But John wrote, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9).
     
  10. Bible-belted

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    John is unequivocal. 1John 3:4-10. Especially v. 9. No one who is born of God can sin as a matter of lifestyle.
     
  11. sodzei

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    According to what you are all saying, we are ALL in great difficulty.

    Yes, I think we are.
     
  12. butterbloom

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    Further down on this website from Intouch Ministies - http://www.intouch.org/myintouch/exploring/bible_says/eternal_security/salvation_149076.html:

    Do I believe the Word of God? God said it; I believe it; that settles it.
    Do I have the witness of the Holy Spirit? Read 1 John 5:6, "And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth." It is conviction, not feeling. "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God" (Romans 8:16).
    Do I have the walk of the believer? Are you different? Do you have a deep desire to please the Lord Jesus? "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation" (2 Corinthians 5:17). You will sin from time to time, but the Holy Spirit convicts you. The unsaved person feels guilt when he sins, but he can harden his heart so that eventually his conscience doesn't speak anymore.
    ------------------------

    I think this is where the difference may lie. But then again, can't you have lived all of this ( felt it, believed it ) and then become backslidden?

    One thing for sure, there is a lot of difference of opinion on this subject.
     
  13. I Am Blessed 24

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    So true Jim! There is no degree of sin. Sin is sin...period! And none of us are without "the man who says he has no sin is a liar".

    [​IMG]
    Sue
     
  14. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Latreia;

    You may have misunderstood my statement on backsliding. I don't know of too many people who have not backslidden in some way, at some time.

    I was not talking about adopting backsliding into an old habit as a lifestyle. Those who do that, as someone else posted, better check their salvation.

    I was speaking of someone who backslides momentarily (in a moment of weakness) and possibly gets killed the same day before they have time to repent.

    Do you think they would go to hell?

    If you think this is true; what happened to "saved, once and for all"???

    [​IMG]
    Sue
     
  15. Bible-belted

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    Hi Sue,

    I wasn't responding to you specfically.

    But to clarify, the verses I cited make it clear that no one will sin as a lifestyle if they are born of God. That does not mean that believers will not sin at all. But it does mean that the cosistent lifestyle ofa beliver is one of righteousness, not sin.

    A practiciing homosexual is living a lifestyle of sin, and therefore cannot claim with truth to be a believer.
     
  16. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Yes, I agree with you.

    You are talking about backsliding as a lifestyle.

    I am talking about backsliding as a temporary lapse.

    [​IMG]
    Sue
     
  17. massdak

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    when a person denys they are in sin and they are in a lifestyle such as homosexuality then they are obviously also a liar which the word tells us of such are not Christian
     
  18. Jim1999

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    Thus explaining the song we used to sing: Ye must be born again,,,,,and again,,,,and again,,,,,,,and again.........

    By the way, when Peter denied the Lord three times....was he unsaved,,,,saved,,,,,,,,When Thomas doubted,,,,,was he unsaved,,saved.....
    When I was saved, I had perfect knowledge.

    The Christian life is not a straight line, but a series of spirals, steps in life and periods of growth and setback. We each develop in different stages, and this does not change because one has difficulty with a particular sin. I think we are all too hard on this point, and I am glad that my life is in the Lord's hands and not yours. Some scriptures quoted are referring to specific circumstances, and there are many more scriptures which point out the human failures of humankind,,,,and yet point to their faith in Christ and their eternal security in God's hands.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  19. Bartholomew

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    "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

    "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

    "For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

    These scriptures are clear. A "practicing" homosexual will not enter the kingdom of God.

    HOWEVER

    What IS the "kingdom of God"; and why do we presume ALL Christians will enter into it? There have been baptist preachers throughout history who taught that although everlasting life was a free gift to all Christians, entrance into the "kingdom of God" (which they believed to be the millennial kingdom) was a reward for faithfulness, and could be forfeited. I really should start a topic on this, but don't because I don't have time to argue against the entire baptist board! [​IMG] If anyone is interested, I'd be pleased to give more info by e-mail. (I won't be arguing this point any more on this thread.)

    Your friend and brother,

    Bartholomew
     
  20. brandontmilan

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    that statement doesn't quite do God justice... i think a better one would be, "God said it, that settles it." it doesn't matter whether we believe it or not...
     

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